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The Forum > Article Comments > The world's 10 biggest energy gluttons > Comments

The world's 10 biggest energy gluttons : Comments

By Andrew Topf, published 6/10/2014

Next time you get into your car and drive to the supermarket, think about how much energy you consume on an annual basis.

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"Next time you get into your car and drive to the supermarket, think about how much energy you consume on an annual basis."

Wrong question!

Correct question is to ask about how much energy humans will consume per capita in the future: 50, 100, 300, 1000 years from now.

We'll want to explore other planets, the solar system the Galaxy and eventually go through black holes to other universes :).

Humans per capita energy consumption has increased logarithmically since we first began to use fire and animals for transport and power. We began using 8 MJ/d as hunter-gatherers before we used fire or animals. Now the USA uses close to 1000 MJ/d per person. The trend will continue.

So,we need to ask where will we get effectively unlimited energy?

The answer is .... nuclear energy (it certainly is not so-called renewables, because they're not sustainable). In fact as Don Aitkin pointed out last week, they don't produce enough energy to remake themsleves and support civilisation.
Posted by Peter Lang, Monday, 6 October 2014 9:38:00 AM
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I thought this is rather a good way to bring peoples understanding of energy.
I have put it like this in talks I have given;

A litre of petrol will take your car 10 to 12 kms, OK ?
How much would you have to pay two men to push it that far ?
That gives people an idea of the energy value gain involved in oil.

Australia uses around 1 million barrels a day. That is one very big amount of energy.
We import 95% of it. Soon to be 100% !
Do you see the risk ?
We are totally on the reliance of the goodwill of others.
Try getting an insurance policy against that risk.
The governments' response to this is we have solid commercial agreements.
When asked how long our diesel submarines would keep going in war, the answer is mumble mumble !
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 6 October 2014 10:51:44 AM
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Bazz

"A litre of petrol will take your car 10 to 12 kms, OK ?
How much would you have to pay two men to push it that far ?
That gives people an idea of the energy value gain involved in oil."

Good point. It would be evne better if you included the amount to petrol needed to make the car, maintain the car through life and dispose of it.

I agree with your point abou the risk of supply diruption. It's an enormous risk. if oli supplies were cut off, 50% of the population would die withing a short time. If electricity supply was cut off, most city dwellers would be dead within a week (no water, no food, no transport beyond what is in your car's fuel tank).

And renewables are not the answer. They are not sustainable, as Don Aitkin pointed out last week with his EROEI paper refering to this: http://bravenewclimate.com/2014/08/22/catch-22-of-energy-storage/

The answer is nuclear power. Why do the nuclear deniers keep denying the realities?
Posted by Peter Lang, Monday, 6 October 2014 11:51:02 AM
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Peter, I have seen it suggested that it is too late for us to start on a nuclear power program.
The time scale means we will be well into the zero growth, economic restructure
that will be forced upon us before we could build enough such stations.
We will have to use coal fired stations and ban export of gas as we will need
those resources to build the uranium & thorium stations and as a replacement
for liquid fuels, petrol & diesel.

It is now looking very strongly that tight oil will start a steep decline around 2017
+- 3 years. There are those still saying that tight oil will start its decline this year.
Most however say it will be obvious by 2020 and it will not be an argument by then.

Even the EIA is confirming that. That is a big turn around for that US govt dept.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 6 October 2014 1:04:33 PM
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Bazz,

I don't agree with either it's too late for nuclear nor that there is a doomsday approaching regarding peak fossil fuels. In 1965 we had just 12 years of oil remaining in the ground. As we need more we find more. I've been following the peak oil debate for decades, and continually amazed at how much more we keep finding. The world has an estimated 6000 Gt C in fossil fuels. If we keep using it at the highest rate projected by the IPCC we'd use 1800 Gt C by 2100. So we are not going to run out of fossil fuels.

Nuclear power can be rolled out much faster than renewable energy; i.e. on the basis of energy supplied not the capacity (which is irrelevant).

If people want to cut global GHG emissions they need to remove the impediments that are preventing nuclear being commercially viable in most countries. If we did that, nuclear generated electricity could be half the cost of fossil fuel generated electricity by 2050. As the prices come down it will replace fossil fuels world wide - not just for electricity.
Posted by Peter Lang, Monday, 6 October 2014 1:32:21 PM
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