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The Forum > Article Comments > IS: illusion versus reality > Comments

IS: illusion versus reality : Comments

By Alon Ben-Meir, published 22/9/2014

The rise of many jihadist groups can be traced several decades back to the reigns of corrupt and ruthless Arab dictators who grossly violated human rights, deprived their citizens of social justice, and violently suppressed any opposition with impunity.

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"I find it passing strange that you always label the US as warmongers; but seem to be always looking the other way, when Isil, with plenty of foreign boots on hallowed ground, sets out on a patently murderous mission to kill/spill the blood of hundreds of thousands of innocents!" says Rusty.

The U.S. since its inception has killed tens of millions of people. Isil, by contrast, has killed perhaps...say 100,000 yet you point the finger at Isil and ignore the genocide and killing carried out by the U.S. (which started with the Native Indians and has continued ever since).

Do you understand the meaning of the word: equivalence?

The U.S. has killed more people than any other nation in the history of the world.
Posted by David G, Monday, 22 September 2014 2:55:30 PM
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'To help defeat Islamic extremism, we must condition our future support to any of the Arab states affected by this scourge and insist that they commit to long–term and substantial socioeconomic and political programs.'

'Millions of dispossessed, despairing, and despondent Arab youth are left with no place to go, no hope, and no future. '

no one could ever give more support to young Arabs than Australia has through immigration. Guess what! Many still hate us and support Isis and Hamas. A number of the jihadist of 9/11 are university trained (again paid for by the West). Me thinks that the West is still in denial re Islam. Most muslims are decent people until they take the Koran literally. And that is the way it was intended by Mohammed to be taken.
Posted by runner, Monday, 22 September 2014 2:59:17 PM
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"The rise of many jihadist groups can be traced several decades back to the reigns of corrupt and ruthless Arab dictators who grossly violated human rights, deprived their citizens of social justice, and violently suppressed any opposition with impunity."

Is the author referring to Saudi Arabia which is considered to be an ally of the West? This is a state that is a monarchy, not a democracy, it does not allow women to drive cars, this is the state that beheads people for sorcery and whose legal system is based on Sharia, this state is also well known for funding Wahhabism to other countries. It was a shame Alon didn't name the Arab dictators he was referring to.

It certainly wasn't Saddam Hussein or Muammar Gaddafi - 2 recent examples of regime change that have been backed by the West. These men were both horrific dictators, and I am not sad that they are gone. However, it must be said they both headed relatively stable, secular states. They were no friend of Islamic Fundamentalists. Iraq and Libya have now become failed states which are over-run by Islamic fundamentalists which have served to destabilize the whole Middle East.

Both Robin Cook, a former British Foreign Secretary (http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jul/08/july7.development)and Hillary Clinton former US Secretary of State(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd0fLAbV1cA) have both stated that Al Qaeda was funded by the USA/CIA in order to defeat the Russians in Afghanistan.

IS is an illusion - as far as I can see, we are fighting forces that the USA and Saudi Arabia are responsible for creating - I'm not sure why they/we are doing this, but I'm sure those who are knowledgeable about history and geopolitics would have some very interesting ideas.
Posted by BJelly, Monday, 22 September 2014 3:31:32 PM
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David G.
As usual you omit the war crimes of Germany, Japan. And those of post war Russia; 25 million murdered or disappeared, when controlled by a mass murdering Stalin!
And yes, not everything was righteous, as Indian nations were swallowed by European Emigration.
That's history and not an excuse of others far away, for their own even worse and vastly more excessive extremes; which incorporates the millions barbarously brutalized and or killed by the largely Arab controlled slave trade!
Also omitted is those Americans killed in defense of ourselves, when the US, sacrificed hundreds of thousands, hurling back the Japanese aggressor.
Many US servicemen confessed to aiming high, to avoid taking life.
But after seeing the horror of the Nazi death camps, and the fact that ending that barbarity, made the action then engaged in righteous, started aiming for the chest or head kill zones.
And as bad as the Nazi animal was, he pales into virtual insignificance besides the excesses of Isil
Having said that, I cannot and will not apologize for the excesses of early settlers, and ask, how would you like to reconcile those activities?
Perhaps by incarcerating or making war on their "white Anglo/Celtic" descendants, who weren't even born then?
And then you go on to waffle on about too little love!
Moreover, there is simply no way, any of these straw man hypocritical arguments, detract in any way, from the topic under examination! Namely, the responsibility of inhuman/extreme Arab dictators, for the Jihadist mindsets of far too many alleged Islamist, who in truth, represent anything else other than peace loving Islam!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Monday, 22 September 2014 3:36:26 PM
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David G,
Please reference one American genocide, just one.
Posted by Is Mise, Monday, 22 September 2014 9:20:39 PM
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No, no, no! This is not about about corrupt dictators, dispossessed youth, or even the lack of opportunities; this is about an ideology that provides an answer – howbeit the wrong one – to many Muslims and their problems. Raising billions of dollars, military intervention or supporting moderate Islamic groups will not make any long-term difference.

What is happening is a return to the pure, aggressive, brutal Islam of Mohammed. Say what you want about ISIS/ISIL/IS, but the fact is that it is very Islamic, both in theory and deed, history and culture. This is why the Western coalition and its allies, and key Muslim states with stakes in this game (Iran, Egypt, Turkey, Syria, etc.) are doomed to failure. Both groups fail to recognize and confront the ideology that drives the jihadists. Western states pretend that Islam has nothing to do with the conflict (“ISIS is not Islamic”) and Muslim states cannot convince the so-called despondent youth because ISIS has the Quran on its side. Actually, thanks to Saudi Arabia and other Islamist groups, ISIS is nothing but Islam’s fundamentalist chickens coming home to roost. Jihadists don’t even need radical Imams; Muslims can figure it out themselves from the hate and violence in the Quran, if they take their religion seriously. Note that Mohammed, by his wars, caused the death of more fellow Muslims than any infidels. So it was then, so it is now. It is Quran 9:111, alive, well and in action.

Not only that, the stupid decision to let millions of Muslims into the West has guaranteed a daunting fifth-column that will ensure a steady flow of recruits so we can share the bloody resurgence of the pure Islam. Aint we lucky!

As to Obama, his half-hearted actions may degrade ISIS for a while (until November’s elections, probably), but in the end neither air attacks nor ground troops will make a difference because they strike only the symptom, not the cause.

Whatever ISIS’ faults may be, it is -- unlike leaders in the West -- honest about Islam, its teachings, theory and practice. We are doomed.
Posted by kactuz, Tuesday, 23 September 2014 9:31:04 AM
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