The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Our submarines to be built overseas? > Comments

Our submarines to be built overseas? : Comments

By Peter Coates, published 12/9/2014

While Abbott may be saving money, uncertainty, control and risk over the next 40 years of the future submarine program should still be considered.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. Page 8
  10. 9
  11. 10
  12. All
Hi David G.

I agree buying Japanese diesel subs is crazy. Even senior Japanese military agree
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-09-15/japanese-concerns-over-submarine-deal/5743022

I'd say an Australian purchase of 4 Virginia nuclear powered subs would be a good idea. This would give Australia a qualitive edge over higher numbers of enemy nuclear subs.

Fremantle is already used for fairly regular visits from American nuclear powered subs.

Switzerland and Sweden spend higher sums per capita (than Australia) on defence to defend their peaceful dispositions.

Subs are keeping up with the times.

Re "Why are we allowing an Raving Idiot like Abbott to take us to war on the other side of the world? Why aren't people marching in the streets, pelting the Prime Ministerial car with rotten fruit and eggs?"

Yes Abbott has created himself "National Security Prime Minister" due to a failed budget and Palmer's dominance in Parliament - as I said in the article. Shades of Abbott's mentor "Jackboot Johnny" and khaki electioneering.

No violence "rotten fruit and eggs" please. But at least Shorten should be opposing more of Abbott's schemes. Shorten is wimping out while its left to the Greens to be a decent opposition.

P.S Tiger Moths were only used as trainers in their day. How bout some Brewster Buffalos - made great target practice for the Japs in Malaya?

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 10:13:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Pete, other OLO'ers...Hi & Good morning.

DMO, suffice it to say, is a very dysfunctional entity if ever there was.

High dissatisfaction and retention rates among the skilled trades persons who carry out the maintenance of the various weapons systems, and from what I observed in my time there, there has been for far too long a 'bean counter mentality' pervading from the very top. This is a corrosive environment to work in from any maintenance perspective.

There was, it appeared, active poaching going on for the technicians working for various contractors who carried out systems maintenance within the ADF facility. To the point where management insisted the Mark X boys didn't sit at the table with the Mark XX boys and talk shop within earshot or at all whilst having smoko.

The skills sets needed to carry out the maintenance of the systems mechanical, electrical, & electronically components takes many years to cultivate. Most working there, like myself, came from a military background with requisite knowledge and skills gained during careers in RAAF/RAN/Army on the same or similar systems.

Recently it was decided to recruit from 'outside' i.e. advertise for people with 'similar' skills sets such as truck drivers, motorcycle mechanics and small engine mechanics, with the occasional electrician thrown in.

This, along with a culture of harassment, unaddressed bullying in many forms being condoned from within the culture/structure of APS, & a lack of security in the sense of low salaries for the scope & nature of work carried out, poor personnel management, and no real comprehension of the OH&S basics were; the reasons I left.

Similarly in manufacturing, if we are to retain skilled people to make these new subs, we need to make their salaries and conditions commensurate with mining and other sectors.

And if we can't retain skilled weapons maintainers what use are the shiny new subs anyway ?
Posted by Albie Manton in Darwin, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 10:23:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
That is a creepy vision Pete, thanks backachya.
If we were to have something like a National Broadband Network, Referendums could be very fast indeed; much faster than a parliamentary debate in fact. I would advance this as a strong argument AGAINST my position; not hard to visualise a deeply incensed populace jumping on the net to express their ire...
I really can't accept the “everybody else has moved away” argument as valid or compelling; did your mother never use the “if everybody else jumped off a cliff...” argument on you? Let's face it, America's military industrial complex likes big ships, big planes, big tanks...
And Australia's coastline and remoteness can't really be compared to France's Maginot line. We are incredibly fortunate to share a border with no one.
The prime question is, what are we guarding against? Why would any country want to invade? The cost of such an invasion would be incredible. Much cheaper to simply buy our resources on the open market. Our farmers are known world wide to be amongst the most efficient in the world, so again cheaper to simply buy our products than to try and take them by force.
The only reason anyone would want to drop a bomb on us would be strategic; we are part of the eyes and ears of the most inarguably aggressive and belligerent nation on the planet.
It is one thing to sign treaties with friends and neighbours, to come to their assistance should they be invaded, and something else entirely to trot alone like a little dog behind it's master every time he wants to secure another country's oil.
Posted by Grim, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 11:56:41 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This is not a new war, it is a very old war.
War 0.1 was when the moslems invaded the Mesopotamia and surrounding areas.
War 0.2 was when the crusaders dislodged the moslems from Jerusalem.
War 0.3 was when the moslems retook the area.
War 0.4 was when the Ottomans took Constantinople.
War 0.5 was when the Moslems invaded Greece
War 0.6 was when the Moslems invaded Serbia.
War 0.7 was when the Moslems were defeated by the Poles & Austrians at Vienna.
War 0.8 was when the Moslems invaded Egypt and Nth Africa
War 0.9 was when the moslems invaded Spain
War 1.0 When the Moslems blew up the Embassys in East Africa
Have I missed something there, probably.
This war is still continuing.

Do you see a patten here ?
Every few hundred years the west has to go to war with the moslems.
Everyone has a turn, it is now our turn.

There are only two ways to resolve this;
1. Submit to Islam.
2. Decide to finally anhilate all Moslems. Nuke Mecca & Medina.

The alternative is more of the same.
Posted by Bazz, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 1:54:53 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Hi Albie Manton in Darwin

Thanks for your post. When in the Public Service I also experienced the full dispiriting gumit of inefficiencies. In the end one was dissuaded from actually serving the Public on high tech matters - as though the Public were the enemy. Sorting and flicking work to others became the road to success and $$$ for high fliers.

I can see that extra hands-on military technical requirements, involving safety and all, would even be more repugnant for the politicised Sorters and Flickers.
--

Hi Grim

I'll play Devil's Advocate in CAPITALS.

I find near instant electronic referendum scary. What if Palmer offers everyone a $million if we made him President for Life? Or the public voted for Union with Bali, PNG and NZ?

Who would decide what was a serious referendum question or outcome?

REGARDING:

"The prime question is, what are we guarding against?" CHINA

"Why would any country want to invade?" CHINA

The cost of such an invasion would be incredible. NOT REALLY WHEN CHINA THREATENS TO NUKE US.

Much cheaper to simply buy our resources on the open market. OR MINE OUR RESOURCES WITH LOW COST LABOUR, THEN SELL IT TO THEIR MASTERS (CHINA) WAY BELOW WORLD PRICES.

CHINESE SETTLERS COULD LEARN QUICKLY AND FARM MORE CHEAPLY

WITH MUCH IMPROVED TARGETING BOMBS CAN BE ONLY MINI-NUKES or fuel-air explosives
--

Hi Bazz

Deary me. This makes my CHINA prejudice look mild.

Depending on one's prejudice and age one could substitute:

Priests
Politicians
Journalists
Catholics
Irish
Jews
Protestants
Jehovahs Witnesses
Chinese
CHINA
Japanese
Japan
Indians
Russians
Communists
Fascists
Nazis, and
Refugees (of course)

I'd say Oil Money financing terrorism is more a threat. When Middle East-Iranian oil runs out leading to an Israel-Arab agreement, I think peace will (probably) break out.

Regards

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Tuesday, 16 September 2014 2:54:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Plantagenet, the Chinese Mandarins are aggressive and have cared little about how many "volunteers" taken from the rice paddy die and even less for those on the receiving end, as long as they control things. By example a big building site with no deaths though poor safety; let us say there are some voids in the foundations.

There is no doubt China has already war-gamed the invasion of Australia, its in the basic manual for such an aggressive military. My guess is Queensland would be the best, its easy to digest and just ignore the rest. Good access, lots of unused agricultural land, great place to build dams, few people, lots of varied minerals, seafood and etc.
Posted by McCackie, Monday, 22 September 2014 3:16:44 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. Page 8
  10. 9
  11. 10
  12. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy