totally agree Ludwig .. under the Abbott government, every move affecting the environment has taken Australia in the OPPOSITE direction to that being taken by the rest of the world

that alone might indicate the need for a rethink ... Greg Hunt is a BIG disappointment ...

Peter Lang

I see you are off posting elsewhere on a similar subject: http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=16654

I find it very strange that you have apparently abandoned this thread and not answered my simple question: what would you have us do?

Although I glean the answer from your comments on the other thread:

<< Forget renewables… …It's nuclear… >>

How extraordinary! As I said previously: nuclear may have its place but it is not the be-all and end-all. At least not for a long time into the future. We ABSOLUTELY should be embracing various renewable energy sources.

Ludwig, we have already established that you have no rational way of demonstrating that what you advocate is more or less sustainable, and that you only advocate open-ended government power to do anything, so stop pretending to be interested in a discussion of it.

There's no point discussing it with you, because even when you are face to face with the fact that your belief system doesn't make any logical sense, and you admit every one of the steps necessary to reach that conclusion, you still won't accept it and just endlessly circle back to insisting that total arbitrary government power over the means of production will make a fairer and more economical society.

<< There's no point discussing it with you… >>

Erm…. so why are you discussing it with me then, then, Jardine? ( :>|

Luddy, even the Germans are running away from wind. It is just too unreliable to be practical, too damn expensive, with only huge subsidies getting it built, & is now found to be much shorter term in lifespan than claimed.

The Danes have to give it for free, to the Swedes, to pump water up hill, just to get rid of it, & then buy back the power generated by that water when they need the power.

I'm afraid mate, that the moment I hear someone talking about "MIX" I know they are promoting an unreliable or extremely expensive system, that could not be even considered except as a minor bit player. In that case, why bother, who needs bit players, when others are better.

This is one of those cases where we must say, if you want it, you damn well pay for it, & leave me out of it.

I will never go along with others demanding I pay for their dream. When it works & saves me money, let me know, otherwise, back to the drawing board old mate. What we have now is not sustainability, just a huge waste of money & resources.

Hasbeen
I have looked at wind power in some detail and I can not see why you insist it is a total waste of time. Cost wise it is now cheaper than new coal plants and the only things cheaper are hydro and traditional geothermal. As for being unreliable the average wind strength in any particular location over a decent period of time such as a year is pretty reliable and in the short term it is also predictable some days ahead. The reason that there is so much anti wind propaganda is simply because it can produce power more cheaply than coal.
Quote Wikipedia
“Wind turbines reached grid parity (the point at which the cost of wind power matches traditional sources) in some areas of Europe in the mid-2000s, and in the US around the same time. Falling prices continue to drive the levelized cost down and it has been suggested that it has reached general grid parity in Europe in 2010, and will reach the same point in the US around 2016 due to an expected reduction in capital costs of about 12%.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_power#Economics

Whatever you think about various power sources there is no doubt that coal is the dirtiest, causes the highest number of causalities in the mining stage and also creates severe health problems for the local poputions. I have often driven through both the Hunter and the Latrobe valleys and you can smell the population some 60Ks from the power stations.

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/backgroundbriefing/2014-03-23/5331252