Jardine, what are you saying?

It sounds a tad crazy to me.

Of course a realistic RET needs to be set up so that it does not transfer wealth from the poor to the rich.

Yes, setting up alternative energy systems would use more resources initially, compared to no construction of new wind farms, hydro schemes, ethanol plants, etc etc, all else being equal.

But of course in the long term it would use progressively less non-renewable energy resources, and it would use no more of all manner of other resources than what would be used if we just continue worshipping continuous growth and basing it on fossil fuels…. until of course the supply or price of said fossil fuels changes sufficiently to cause major economic changes.

So NO, your assertions do certainly not invalidate my what I am saying. Nor do they indicate that I have a terrible philosophy. Far from it!

Hi Rhrosty

Yep you've sadly "missed something". The solar policies were always a mirage that needed to be backed by Power Station electricity.

Citizens couldn't expect governments to continue to subsidize personal solar fixtures that lead to higher electicity prices for people without the money to even scrimp and save to buy solar.

The Greens can no longer force feelgood upper middle class "maybe carbon cuts will work in 200 years" policies on Australian Governments.

Pete

It is sad that any newspaper could print such a piece of fiction as this article. It bears no relation whatever to realty and is utter nonsense.
In the last seven years the wholesale price of electricity in Australia (about 11 Cents per kW/hr) has a most changed by 1 Cent per kW/hr. It is the distributing charge which accounts for 65% of the increase in electricity bills. The grid has been upgraded to the tune of 45 Billion dollars during a period when electricity consumption actually fell. A small portion of the upgrade was necessary due aging, but the vast majority was not and the only effect has been to push up electricity bills.

http://reneweconomy.com.au/2014/australias-gold-medal-in-soaring-electricity-prices-62967


In Germany the last seven years has seen a big increase in the take up of renewable power, but wholesale prices over that time have not increased significantly. It is probable the main reason power prices in Germany are high is due to the construction and mothballing of a number of nuclear power stations, which wasted a lot of money. In fact renewables in Germany are putting downward pressure on power prices, with wholesale prices sometimes falling below 3 cents per kw/hr. Germany is in fact now a net exporter of power.

The RET is a risk to the big fossil fuel power supplies because it puts downward pressure on wholesale prices, and in the case of solar tends to ramp up in time for the afternoon peak. Fossil fuel power companies stand to pocket some 10 billion dollars if the RET is removed.

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/weaker-ret-would-transfer-10b-to-big-power-firms-study-finds-20140817-1051mo.htm

Luddy old mate, where you think you're jumping on a sustainability band wagon, what you are really doing is jumping from the old frying pan into the fire.

Recent evaluation of wind generators is finding that the promoted commercial life of 20 years is about as honest as the claim that CO2 is the cause of global warming.

From about year 6 they are failing at over 10% per annum. This means the power they generate is about twice as expensive as claimed, when amortised over their actual productive life. At last count there are over 7000 abandoned generators in California alone. Once the high range subsidies diminish, it is not worth the owners maintaining the things, let alone repairing them. n average a wind farm may actually be lucky to produce as much energy as it took to build & install.

If site rehabilitation, transmission lines & expenditure on the grid to handle their erratic power is considered, they are a net loss.

You must know that ethanol production is about energy neutral, at a best case. As much hydrocarbon energy is consumed producing the stuff as is contained in the stuff produced. For those wanting to reduce CO2 it is a dead loss. More is produced making the stuff than is saved.

Hydro, now there's a real winner. Only problem is that the greenies hate dams. Even worse, they have conned the politicians with this "environmental" water. We are now wasting Snowy water down the Snowy to the sea, & down the Murray to evaporate in a man made waterski lake in South Australia.

I see you didn't mention solar. I guess that means you accept that most won't generate in their useful life, the amount of power consumed in their manufacture.

Again useful life of the things has been greatly exaggerated. My experience has been that after 3 years solar cells could not maintain a battery they were connected to at full charge, even when the batteries were not being used.

Mate, I'm afraid that renewable power you so long for, is yet to be invented.

Ludwig I know they keep saying that, but what they keep doing is the opposite. Why should we be forced to pay for another set of promises until the failure of the old ones has been paid back by all the people who supported making them?

Ludwick,

"But of course in the long term it would use progressively less non-renewable energy resources, and it would use no more of all manner of other resources than what would be used if we just continue worshipping continuous growth and basing it on fossil fuels…. until of course the supply or price of said fossil fuels changes sufficiently to cause major economic changes."

Your understandings are completely wrong. They are nothing more than baseless assertion based on baseless beliefs.

Can I urge you to read:
1. "Humanity Unbound: How Fossil Fuels Saved Humanity from Nature and Nature from Humanity" http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-analysis/humanity-unbound-how-fossil-fuels-saved-humanity-nature-nature-humanity

2. The posts on the BraveNewClimate (BNC) website on the "Renewable Limits" tab: http://bravenewclimate.com/renewable-limits/

3. The posts on the BNC web site on the "Sustainable Nuclear" tab: http://bravenewclimate.com/integral-fast-reactor-ifr-nuclear-power/