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The Forum > Article Comments > The climate change refugees are coming! > Comments

The climate change refugees are coming! : Comments

By Don Aitkin, published 15/8/2014

This isn't science, and it isn't good journalism. But it is a good example of juvenile special pleading.

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Yea!, Right, Don. I seem top recall projections by IPCC or some other UN body in about 2007 or so of 50 million Climate Refugees by 2010.

Fact: there were none by 2010 and 0 Climate Refugees in 2014.

Just one more of the Climate Cultist's doomsday beliefs.
Posted by Peter Lang, Friday, 15 August 2014 8:31:04 AM
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Tuvalu is small fry --when Bangladesh wakes up to the new scam --watch out Oz!

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22229752.700-bangladeshs-sea-walls-may-make-floods-worse.html#.U-08YPmSzoE
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 15 August 2014 8:50:13 AM
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Well if Greens/Labour get back in swallowing any lie is possible. I mean it is the world's greatest moral dilemma.
Posted by runner, Friday, 15 August 2014 9:16:48 AM
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LOL yet another anit-science global warming article on Australia’s version of world news daily.

Don what are you saying...That climate science is often misrepresented by people without the relevant scientific background?

Well blow me down.
Posted by Cobber the hound, Friday, 15 August 2014 9:35:02 AM
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It's just not small Island states at risk, but large ones as well, if we get say a three metre increase in sea levels. And as soon as the next 20-30 years!
And we could, and have it presented in a single afternoon as a three metre tsunami, if an ice wall; all that holding back an ocean sized body of fresh water, in Antarctica, is finally breached by much more rapid than envisaged, ice melt!
That then reduces what remains of the very slim ice wall, all that prevents this very catastrophe from happening!
Let's hope the denialists cling to their coastal property, and or around 70 of Australia's economy; presently in coastal cities and towns, which will disappear permanently beneath the waves, when not if this body of water is released!
And not only drown the coastal holdings of the most vociferous of the denialists, but as true justice meted out for quite deliberate misinformation; that then compelled official inaction, just when we needed real life saving action the most!
Them as well?
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 15 August 2014 1:08:13 PM
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Rhrosty old mate, in this now cooling world, the chances of that are about the same as the sun going supernova tomorrow.

In fact we had better start building dredges quick time, as this coming little ice age is likely to lower sea level enough to start drying out our harbors.

We are more likely to find ourselves blasting passages through the reef to get in & out, than have it, or the atolls drowned.

I am starting to wonder what the next UN fraudulent scare campaign will be, now that have lost global warming, & most people are too smart to fall for the ocean acidification balloon they floated a few years back.

It will be interesting to watch the fat cats wriggle, as they search for a new con trick.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 15 August 2014 2:22:56 PM
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The perfect job opportunity:

SWIMMING INSTRUCTOR IN TUVALU

Pays 10 coconuts a week!
Posted by plantagenet, Friday, 15 August 2014 4:00:20 PM
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I'm living on the frontline where this scam is rampant. Thank you Labor.
Posted by individual, Friday, 15 August 2014 6:48:10 PM
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"and there is some suggestion that sea-level rise is declining"

Only on denialist blogs. The research literature is clear sea levels are rising.

"If Tuvalu 'sits just two meters above sea level' then on my calculations it will, all other things being equal, 'disappear' about 2680, unless there is an astonishing rise in sea levels."

What an astonishingly ignorant statement. The problem is not that the island will rapidly drift out of sight underwater, but that the island will become uninhabitable because of the flooding that will occur during storms when waves are much higher than the average sea level.

But you are correct, these people are not climate refugees. They may come later.
Posted by Agronomist, Saturday, 16 August 2014 10:01:05 AM
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Aggromist

Tide goes out - the sea level drops.

Next question.

Pete
Posted by plantagenet, Saturday, 16 August 2014 10:08:24 AM
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"Tide goes out - the sea level drops.

Next question.

Pete"

That is of no help at all if your house has been flooded or your crop fields are inundated with sea water.

In fact it is a silly thing to write.
Posted by Agronomist, Saturday, 16 August 2014 11:39:10 AM
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Hasbeen old mate.
Fact 1# The water that is melting the ice in question, is a measured 4C!
2# And at least 5C higher than the previous subzero norm for that region?
Hence the more rapid ice melt?
You may be correct, that a new ice age may be coming, and possible due to seriously increased global convection, and subzero upper atmosphere mixing downward as never before; due to climate change, creating just what you have postulated?
That said old mate, the ocean sized body of water exists, and is currently only contained by a comparatively thin, now very dubious ice wall.
And the more rapid melting than previously postulated, by the so called doomsayers, is a worry that simply can't be discounted, or burying the head somewhere warm and comfortable!
However, I'm not all that worried.
I'll be alright in my mountain home.
And if the major capitals are largely destroyed virtually overnight?
Well, there be far less traffic on the roads, to worry about, and the deep harbors, will be three metres deeper.
The fact is, when this body of water ever does escape, then it's just not we who'll be affected by a three metre sea level rise, in a single afternoon, but the entire world!
Put these two things together.
The huge body of marginally dammed water exists, and the ice preventing it from adding to sea levels, is still rapidly melting! When it is released, seas levels would then rise overnight, around the world, by around an averaged three metres!
And the temperature of the ocean waters involved in the melt down, is an averaged 4C!
Or around 5C higher than a previous subzero normal?
You can remain on the coast and give swimming lessons if you like?
But wiser men, will take what they can get right now, and head for the hills, where property is currently, much cheaper, and more abundant!
Cheers Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Saturday, 16 August 2014 12:36:19 PM
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I find it very interesting Agronomist, that tax payer funded research literature can find sea level rise, when people living in one place on Sydney harbor & Morton bay know that a 2 meter spring tide is not as high today, as a 2 meter spring high tide was 80 years ago.

They try to hide that the tide mark on Fort Denison shows no change in sea level in over a couple of centuries.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 16 August 2014 12:48:29 PM
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Very interesting Hasbeen.

You know I find it really interesting that in a world apparently in the grip of global cooling, all these towns report record high temperatures. I always wondered how that worked.

Keep up the good work.
Posted by Agronomist, Saturday, 16 August 2014 1:00:19 PM
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Where I live the highest tide in memory was in 1967. No other has come anywhere near it since. Those mountaintops in the pacific could simply be setting somewhat. I mean the seabed is not as stable as the stupidity of some environmentalists. Could there be any money in predicting land subsidence perhaps ?
Let's wait & see. Tuvalu meanwhile should build infrastructure farther back from the beach.
Posted by individual, Saturday, 16 August 2014 2:21:33 PM
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Shallow thinking covers lack of compassion. Even blind Freddie and his dog know the danger times in these small pacific countries occurs when high tide plus sea level rise plus storm surge occur at the same time. And storm surges and sea level rise are increasing with time.
Posted by Tony153, Sunday, 17 August 2014 9:57:05 AM
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A bit of fact checking.
The calculated rate of sea level from observations since 1950 is 5.1mm per year for Tuvalu and global sea level rise is actually accelerating.

Sea level in the pacific can vary by up to half a meter depending on whether the climate is going through an El Nino or a La Nina.

Tuvalu is protected from erosion by coral reefs, which are very sensitive to high sea temperatures preferred range (23C-29C) Sea temperature in the area now only occasionally fall below 29C and are mostly closer to 32C

Coral is also very sensitive to small changes in pH levels which can severely restrict their ability to build their skeletons. Increasing levels of CO2 have already impacted on pH levels.

There is evidence to suggest that pacific storms are becoming more powerful due to climate change.

Conclusion once the coral is gone there is virtually no chance Tuvalu will be habitable and this is likely to happen in less than 50 years time.
Posted by warmair, Sunday, 17 August 2014 11:25:37 AM
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As scientists estimate that we should commence severe climate reduction measures NOW so we may (or may not) make a difference in 200 years* time - we should do so.

The prospect of the rest of Tuvaluans moving to New Zealand is beyond discussion as this is an issue of morality and faith.

Kevin said so.
Posted by plantagenet, Sunday, 17 August 2014 11:39:55 AM
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The small Island nations keen to cash in on the climate fraud include Tuvalu, which had an ANU student attend a lie fest arranged by the UN to weep on the table for “my country” which would sink because of human caused climate change. This liar came from Queanbeyan, and had never lived in Tuvalu.Sea level expert Nils Axel Morner used a tree on an island in the group to show that there had been no sea level rise. An Australian group of greens pulled the tree down, but Morner still made his documentary, showing there had been no sea level rise at Tuvalu.
http://www.climatechangefacts.info/ClimateChangeDocuments/NilsAxelMornerinterview.pdf
Posted by Leo Lane, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 3:29:42 PM
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the word refugee has been used by the left to include illegal entries and economic refugees. Why not continue one step further with this fraud.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 3:53:50 PM
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Leo
Nils Axel Morner was referring to the Maldives which is in the Indian Ocean not the pacific.

Sea level rise is not equal in all places, in the Maldives the rise is probably below average at 0.8–1.6 millimeters) per year since 1950s, compared to 5.1 mm for Tuvalu, but as much of the Maldives is only is only 40 cm above sea level, it leaves very little room for any increase in sea level. Serious sea flooding events have occurred in 1987 and 2007.

http://www.climatehotmap.org/global-warming-locations/republic-of-maldives.html
Posted by warmair, Wednesday, 20 August 2014 9:06:01 PM
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