yvonne, I have been *trying* to talk to people like you for years.

You (plural) are not interested in an honest debate about anything.
Why should you debate? You already have all the answers.

"dismissing everything they have to say."

You didn't have anything to say.

You didn't "disagree" with me, you just insulted me.
You made no actual contribution to the discussion.

"it might make your world not quite as certain and as neatly coloured in black and white"

How typically presumptuous of you to presume I'm your invented boogeyman: the cookie cutter conservative/fascist orthodoxist.

My world is already plenty "interesting" and overflowing with uncertainty, ambiguity and complexity.

I am a gay, agnostic but believe in paranormal, fortean, absurdist/surrealist, culturally eclectic, anti-abortion, pro-voluntary euthanasia, pro-drug decriminalisation non-user, gun-neutral, non-smoking pro-smoker, anti-seatbelt/helmet, pro-capital punishment but minimalist law, moderate ethnic nationalist, anti-fascist/communist, pro-direct democracy, classical liberal, single taxer, who loves strong women but can't stand feminists.

So no honey, NOBODY "agrees with everything" I say.

You're more likely to have the Manichean black and white perspective and the cloned groupthink friends.

Diversity good (no matter how destabilising), Kin-bias bad (if you're White, but good if you're a Coloured/alien minority).

Now if you'd care to actually *share* an opinion, I'd love to "debate" with you (i.e. whistle in the wind).

"I am a gay, agnostic but believe in paranormal, fortean, absurdist/surrealist, culturally eclectic, anti-abortion, pro-voluntary euthanasia, pro-drug decriminalisation non-user, gun-neutral, non-smoking pro-smoker, anti-seatbelt/helmet, pro-capital punishment but minimalist law, moderate ethnic nationalist, anti-fascist/communist, pro-direct democracy, classical liberal, single taxer, who loves strong women but can't stand feminists."

Thank you Shockadelic. I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. You one interesting full of contradictions honeybun you.

I am clearly much, much older than you and therefore feel quite comfortable in my skin without needing anybody else to give me a label or to require outside validation of any labels I might give myself. Gender, sexual orientation, nationality, race and, arguably spiritual beliefs or the lack thereof, have nothing to do with a debate on what it means to be a refugee, a human being in a situation they find unacceptable. They are all man made constructs and should be chipped at until they disappear. At the basic level it is about a discussion on human beings, no different from you or me.

By the way, you state you are gay. Are you Okay with what is happening in Uganda? There are people risking their lives helping homosexual persons escape. People who face death simply because of sexual orientation, as does anybody who knowingly associates with a homosexual. But this being about non Caucasians it is of no concern to you right?

And just between you and me. By identifying as male and gay, what business do you have having an anti-abortion stance?

Yvonne you've got that completely wrong love.

I'm a very happy little vegemite, totally happy with my lot & my country.

That is why I will fight tooth & nail to stop fools like you stuffing up our country, so you can feel proud of your humanity. Try feeling for the existing population, rather than someone who wants to jump in mid stream, & grab a chunk what we have built, without having done anything for it.

I have reaped the rewards that I & my predecessors have sewn, & I am not about to let you your type give away my kids heritage to any blowins that want a chunk.

I don't give a damn what any refugee feels, not my problem. I am always disgusted with those who run away abandoning their fellows, wanting to grab someone elses good life.

Hasbeen, sweetie, your predecessors were also blowins escaping some hardship, grabbing chunks of what people who were here before had already built. Disgusting cowards who couldn't cut it where they were to make it a better place and ran away, in your very own words. They might have come very comfortably on a great big boat

yvonne "Gender, sexual orientation, nationality, race and, arguably spiritual beliefs or the lack thereof, have nothing to do with a debate on what it means to be a refugee"

No, but they have everything to do with your presumption/accusation that I'm a homogenous "black and white" stereotype.

"They are all man made constructs and should be chipped at until they disappear."

I'm afraid not.

*Everything* in society is a human construct.
Including all those "rights" you no doubt demand.

You cannot live amongst humans without dealing with constructs, labels, definitions, categories *all the time*.

If you wish to live alone in a cave eating raw food, you can chip away every "construct" you want, sweetie.

"People who face death simply because of sexual orientation"

Actually, they faced life imprisonment.
And the law has now been overruled by the high court.

Extrajudicial violence by individuals would itself be a criminal offence.

Of course I'm not "okay" with this, but this kind of thing exists everywhere.

It is more prominent in more backward/primitive peoples.
Precisely why I don't want them migrating here.

"By identifying as male and gay, what business do you have having an anti-abortion stance?"

I'm a human being.
So are foetuses.

I can have a stance on anything affecting humans.

Gay men can father children, you know.

I'm not a cow or giraffe.
Can I have an opinion on abattoirs, circuses and zoos?

Any more inane comments?

Shockadelic, you have very fixed opinions. I've learned not to be as sure as you are as I got older. Working for many years in Intensive Care Units coming across many different people from many backgrounds, not to mention my family's experiences, have exposed me to the full gamut, up close, to all of humanity's courage and fears. Cowardice? I can't judge.
Both my parents and many family have been Prisoners of War, both as soldiers and as civilians. I have 2 sons currently serving in the ADF. All my life I've been surrounded by people who have had unimaginable experiences. Not to mention my own journey.

I'm envious of your certainties.

If you are a reader, read "Silence" by Shusako Endo. He's a Japanese Catholic author, which isn't really the point in this story. It's a great book to open any amount of discussion. The main issue is remaining true to one's beliefs. Granted, the particular beliefs/values in this book I personally wouldn't suffer a moment of inconvenience for, but are there any I have I would?