The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Gay domestic violence: the hatred that dare not speak its name > Comments

Gay domestic violence: the hatred that dare not speak its name : Comments

By Ben-Peter Terpstra, published 22/7/2014

After all, physical and emotional female-on-female violence is problematic for campaigning journalists bent on portraying domestic violence as a symptom of patriarchy.

  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. All
I would be interested to know the title of the Victorian study you mention and the name of the peer-reviewed journal it was published in.

Like so many of the 'there is no patriarchy, women are as violent as men' crew you seem to miss the point that no proponent of the gendered violence model of IPV has ever said that only men are violent in intimate partnerships, or that IPV doesn't occur in same sex relationships. And yes, there is a need for more research into same sex IPV. But the reality remains that violence against women is overwhelming committed against them by men, and violence against men is also overwhelmingly committed by men.
Posted by Carz, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 8:18:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Carz

Which men?

But if you are in a homosexual relationship, here is a website from the Victorian government that offers advice on what to do if you experience same sex domestic violence.

http://www.glhv.org.au/category/topic/domestic-violence

I have noted that they have Gay and Lesbian Liaison Officers in Victoria, which is rather different to heterosexual couples, who would get just any officer.

It seems rather special and elitist.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 8:44:11 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
SURPRISE FINDING IN GAY QUEENSLAND RESEARCH

"A new Griffith University study has revealed that gay and lesbian people are more likely to experience major relationship problems with their partners rather than their family." http://qnews.com.au/article/surprise-finding-gay-queensland-research
Posted by elizabeth4, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:26:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Tell me about it.

It Townsville, in ARES Transport most of the women were Lesbians in the 80's. It was one constant turmoil of in-fighting amongst the Lesbian drivers. Woe-be-tide any girlfriend caught talking privately to a male driver or another girl. Baden-Clay face was nothing to compare it with the marks I've seen. In the Mess, after a few beers there would be some doozy punch-ups, clothes ripped off, hair pulled out. All very entertaining to us males.
Posted by Jayb, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 10:49:34 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Carz "you seem to miss the point that no proponent of the gendered violence model of IPV has ever said that only men are violent in intimate partnerships" But plenty have pushed the line that female violence against men is at such a low level that it can and should be ignored (and variations on that theme).

"But the reality remains that violence against women is overwhelming committed against them by men, and violence against men is also overwhelmingly committed by men."

Sort of true but phrased in a way that is likely to misrepresent the situation. Heavily impacted by the reality that violence against men is at far higher rates than violence against women. Generally a male is more likely to be assaulted by a female than he is to assault a female, on top of that is the far higher rates of being assaulted by other males.

Most of have strong social taboos against assaulting women and up to a point against defending ourselves from assaults by women.

I didn't like or see the need for the way the term toxic was used in the article. I don't see a case that lesbian relationships ar more toxic than others, higher levels of physical violence are to be expected wher you have two parties without a strong social taboo against the use of violence against a partner.

One of the discussions following a recent DV article on OLO provided links to material that demonstated a significant drop off in IPV perpetrated by men over the period that male initiated DV has been the subject of focused attention.

Those campaigns don't stop everyone but they do change views for many on whats acceptable. The need is to address all violence regardless of the gender or sexual orientation of the parties involved.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 11:03:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
A thoughtful article highlighting the least discussed domestic violence issues we have in our community.
Gay couples are just as susceptible to the same violence issues as any other couple.

Certainly, all anti-domestic violence campaigns in the media should address all forms of violence in our community, or some people may think it only involves men abusing women.

I would be wary of using the term "Intimate Partner Violence" though, because that would cut out mentioning our youngest victims (and perpetrators?) of domestic violence.....the children.
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 3:41:17 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"I would be wary of using the term "Intimate Partner Violence" though, because that would cut out mentioning our youngest victims (and perpetrators?) of domestic violence.....the children."

Interesting point which I'd not considered when writing the post. Terms can become a real pain in these sorts of discussions, DV, IPV, family violence etc. In the context of the response to Carz I was being fairly specific with the use of the IPV term as that seemed to be the best fit for the context of Carz comments.

Overall Imwas more bothered by the apparent use of the findings to ty and paint lesbian relationships as toxic. I don't know a lot of "out" lesbians but those I've known have been to the best of my knowledge very ordinary in other respects.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 5:34:05 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Robert,

You may be correct.

“The most comprehensive review of the scholarly domestic violence research literature ever conducted concludes, among other things, that women perpetrate physical and emotional abuse, and engage in control behaviors, at comparable rates to men.”

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10741752.htm

I think most men would recognise that.

But if it is also true for homosexual couples, then domestic violence in gay and lesbian couples should be at the same rates as for heterosexual couples.

Gender has little to do with it.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 6:53:50 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Incomuicardo, this will be the simplified version because of word limits etc. Note the research I'm referring to is acts based research mostly based on asking both genders about their experience of violence. Other forms of research come to different conclusions but I'm of the view that those have very strong outcome biases.

My understanding is that recent research shows women initiate violence against partners at higher rates than men whereas when they started doing that kind of research many years ago the numbers were pretty close. During the intervening period there has been a strong focus on male violence in the home and almost none on female violence in the home. The rates of male initiated violence have dropped, female initiated violence has not.

I don't know how much research has actually examined non-violent forms of abuse, I've yet to see any serious work on that topic.

Given the drop in rates of male initiated violence against partners I'd expect lesbian relationships to have higher rates of violence. I'd also expect those numbers to drop if all violence was addressed in public advertising and other anti-violence campaigns rather than just male violence. I doubt violence will disappear entirely in the forseeable future but rates of violence can certainly be reduced further.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 7:49:34 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I would offer an explanation for skewed results.

Controlling behaviour is everywhere, and indeed we have numerous laws and rules that control our behaviour.

If I am at a meeting, and someone becomes too rowdy, I can ask them to quieten down. I am now carrying out controlling behaviour towards the other person.

Now the other person may actually object to my controlling behaviour, and they may feel that they have a right to be rowdy at the meeting, (just like a politician in parliament).

In fact, they may feel that I am being abusive towards them by asking them to quieten down.

It depends.

Now a woman may carry out controlling behaviour towards a man, (and lets face it, they ALL do), but the man goes along with it, and does not regard it as being abuse from the woman.

But if a man carries out controlling behaviour towards a woman, then the woman may very well think that it is “patriarchal”, and think that a man can’t be telling them what to do etc.

Even if controlling behaviour is being carried out equally by both women and men, so many women now think that the controlling behaviour from men is “abuse” or “patriarchal”, and they don’t even notice their own controlling behaviour.

So, if a survey asks “How often are you abused”, women might report “often”, but men report “not often”, even though the controlling behaviour by men and women is actually equal in frequency.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:12:56 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
The above post was for Robert
Posted by Incomuicardo, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:13:58 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Posted by Incomuicardo, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:12:56 PM

So true.

Erin Pizzey wrote about this in her discussion paper on working with violent women. Particularly about the behaviour not being recognised

<To Mr. Roberts, all of this behavior seemed perfectly usual. After all, he had witnessed this
<sort of commotion for thirteen years of their marriage. When I suggested to him, ‘What you
<endured is emotional terrorism, he suddenly and for the first time was able to see his
<situation clearly.

A generalisation is the males tend not to be as 'aware' as females in a social/relationship context.
Posted by Wolly B, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:56:52 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
"So, if a survey asks “How often are you abused”, women might report “often”, but men report “not often”, even though the controlling behaviour by men and women is actually equal in frequency."
Posted by Incomuicardo, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 9:12:56 PM

Pregnant women are screened for domestic violence and the question that is asked;

"when was the last time he hit you?"

So men are judged to be guilty before the trial even begins.
Posted by Wolly B, Tuesday, 22 July 2014 10:03:18 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
WollyB, where is your proof of that stupid question being used, except when investigators are seeing actual physical proof of violence on someone's body?

Aren't we discussing gay domestic violence here?

Either gender can be violent, that has been well and truly demonstrated in our society, so why must you continue with this gender war rubbish?
It is so yesterday....
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 12:07:44 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Incomuicardo, I'd not gotten around to looking at the source of the data previously. I didn't find enough detail to form a strong opinion but after reading the material at the link from the article then having a browse of the underlying survey topics my confidence in the results as a reliable measure of rates is pretty low. The factors you mentioned could all easily play a part.

The research was based on results from the California Health Survey which is a very broad survey across a whole range of topics and unlikely to have drilled deep enough to overcome pre-existing perceptions about what is IPV (the term used in the link BTW). Some of the other results give the impression that that may be the case.

I should have had a look at the source material earlier, there is far too much material in this space that does not include protections against inbuild collection bias. It would need more than one study based on a broad topic survey to draw reasonable conclusions about rates of IPV in any type of relationship.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 5:38:28 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
WollyB, where is your proof of that stupid question being used,
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 12:07:44 AM

http://www0.health.nsw.gov.au/resources/nswkids/pdf/dvrs_doh_report_after_the.pdf

ASK:
Q1 Within the last year have you been hit, slapped or hurt in other ways &#9633; YES &#9633; NO
by your partner or ex-partner?

page 12

Anyway as a nurse you could just ask the midwives.

<so why must you continue with this gender war rubbish?
<It is so yesterday….

To my knowledge I have never called any of your posts rubbish and it was in response to the post by Incomuicardo, and their post about surveys.
Posted by Wolly B, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 6:13:27 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Who is 'we'? If you're talking about a few affluent Western nations where gays are already legally protected and socially accepted, then yes, 'we' can perhaps start to turn our attention to more specific issues arising out of this. But if 'we' includes Uganda or Pakistan or Russia, where gays are vulnerable to State prosecution, imprisonment and death, then no, gay domestic violence is not the most important issue by a long chalk. And if raising it is an attempt to distract attention from the persecution still faced by gay people across most of the planet, then it's a vile and pernicious tactic.
Posted by Jon J, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 7:14:00 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Wolly B,

That is an example of what I have written about previously.

The response from Susenline was actually controlling behaviour, as they were trying to control you, and stop you from making posts.

They were also quite insulting towards you.

My belief is that controlling behaviour from a woman towards a man is much more accepted than controlling behaviour from a man towards a woman

It may even be thought that it is unmanly for a husband to ever complain about his wife’s constant nagging, put-downs and insults.

Although having a nagging wife can be a very serious health risk for men.

http://life.nationalpost.com/2014/05/09/a-nagging-wife-really-can-send-her-husband-to-an-early-grave-denmark-study-claims/

But it has reached a point where controlling behaviour from a man towards a woman is now called “misogyny”, or “abuse”, or “patriarchy” etc, while controlling behaviour from a woman towards a man is just accepted or ignored.

Of course the whole theory of “patriarchy” comes unstuck with the issue of domestic violence in homosexual couples.

There the theory of “patriarchy” cannot be applied, so data about the rates of DV in homosexual couples is often hidden or not mentioned.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 8:49:22 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Incommunicado "t may even be thought that it is unmanly for a husband to ever complain about his wife’s constant nagging, put-downs and insults."

Really?
Lol! There must be a lot of 'unmanly husbands' about the world then.
Violence is violence...no matter what the gender.
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 9:53:19 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
suseonline: Lol! There must be a lot of 'unmanly husbands' about the world then.

Yes Suseonline, there are. No man wants to look like a fool in front of his mates. Yes, I know it's called Pride. Unfortunately it happens more than anyone cares to admit. That was the result of a Study on Female to Male violence done in the 70's. The Female Lobby Groups had the Groups Funding cut off after the preliminary finding so the full Study could not go ahead. More Controlling behaviour (violence) by Women.

Another, There are lots of tongue-in-cheek jokes about this subject. I get them all the time. At least one a day. Unfortunately they are too true.

Violence is violence...no matter what the gender.

Agreed.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 10:14:05 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
@Wolly B, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 6:13:27 AM

In Qld and one might assume in other jurisdictions the definition applied in the interrogations was that DV can be physical or mental and the questions were framed to suit.

It is another case where the ends justified the means and policy had no regard for obtaining prior informed consent to the interrogation. One wonder why not where emphasis in the delivery of medical services and treatment is on ensuring personal privacy (Privacy Principles are relevant, the use of information gained for instance) and informed consent prior.

The interrogation, which I assume is still being done, was intended to be automatically applied where women attended a GP, midwife, hospital and maybe other contacts with service providers. Apparently where the woman did not volunteer any comment as a result that could be interpreted as DV (a wide definition as noted earlier) she was to be issued with a card with DV contacts and encouraging her to report in the future.

There are other deficiencies, some examples being that the midwives and others did not receive suitable training; there is uncertainty what action/referral was made or followed-up where a report was recorded; and there was no investigative process or QA to ensure the truth and correctness of the report (what about the partner accused and presumably recorded in notes?). It is not known how multiple reporting from the same or different providers affected the statistics.

The system assumed that men are offenders and women the victims. The definition of DV was broad and not limited to physical harm. As well, it is fair to assume from the intent and design of the system, the briefing of the interrogators for example, that lesbian mental and physical violence would not be reported and nor of course would mental and physical abuse of men (regardless of the gender of the offender).

A cynic might say that the reporting system was self-serving for public bureaucrats and professionals who earned their daily bread advocating and making DV policy. Where is the independent review?
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 1:42:51 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
onthebeach,

If one person in a couple is being subjected to emotional or physical abuse from the other person, then certainly they should be keeping a diary of that abuse, and/or attempting to record it on camera or sound recorder (and there are mobile apps for this).

Considering the health implications found in the Denmark study, nagging from a wife can take 10 years off the husband’s life.

http://jech.bmj.com/content/68/8/720.abstract?sid=c9791b8d-75bd-4d10-9400-d813b5e31aa2

This is a serious health issue, and being subject to prolonged nagging may be just as injurious to health as something such as exposure to asbestos or passive smoking.

With enough recorded evidence, the husband should be able to have his wife charged or taken before a magistrate, and there is an interesting case regards that here.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2594213/Shes-Wife-given-Asbo-nagged-husband-loudly-fined-launching-45-minute-rant-buying-wrong-type-scratchcard.html

If the husband becomes divorced or leaves the wife after she has been charged, he should be able to sue his ex-wife for damage to his health, and seek compensation money from her.

That would be fair enough all round, and in fact, I have known people to carry out litigation for a lot less.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 7:00:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
JayB, many of the men I know constantly complain about their nagging wives, but whether it is considered 'domestic violence' or not is certainly a contentious issue.

Any sort of domestic violence, whether it be physical or mental, is certainly awful.
However, I think we can try and deal with the awful physical violence out there and try and stamp that put before trying to tackle the much harder to prove mental or financial domestic violence out there.

Too often, some groups in society want to try and skate over the physical abuse by suggesting the victim 'deserved it' because they were 'naggers' or 'lippy' or just wouldn't do as they were told.
If you bash someone, YOU are the violent one, not the victim who spoke words you didn't like.
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 7:59:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Posted by Incomuicardo, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 8:49:22 AM

Thank you.

Erin Pizzey wrote about how some women refuse to recognise their own aggression, I think she wrote about this in Prone to Violence.

<However, I think we can try and deal with the awful physical violence out there and try and <stamp that put before trying to tackle the much harder to prove mental or financial domestic <violence out there.

<Too often, some groups in society want to try and skate over the physical abuse by <suggesting the victim 'deserved it' because they were 'naggers' or 'lippy' or just wouldn't do <as they were told.
<If you bash someone, YOU are the violent one, not the victim who spoke words you didn't <like.
<Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 7:59:31 PM

How do you suggest we do that?

Would it not be better to prevent the physical violence from happening in the first place?

A person who is under the influence of drugs or alcohol is in no state to listen to reason. A person who is in a state of psychosis is not in a rational state of mind.

A recent study indicated that about 60% of the male population in prison has an acquired brain injury, so how can you reason with someone who has lost part of their frontal lobe?

Then we have the segment of the male population who are clinically psychopaths and from all my reading, it is pretty pointless doing any sort of therapy with them as they just refine their skills.

I have heard of and know people who claim to experience a 'mental blackout' when they enter an extreme state of anger. I think this equates to extreme rage or as the vikings called a 'beserker'.
Posted by Wolly B, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 8:52:41 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
suseonline: JayB, many of the men I know constantly complain about their nagging wives, but whether it is considered 'domestic violence' or not is certainly a contentious issue.

If they complain then they must have something to complain about. If the husband subjected his wife to the same behaviour then that would be considered violence by the Feminists, & you by all accounts. If taken to a court an AVO would be issued against the husband immediately. Not so if a husband wanted one against his wife. He would be laughed out of town by the magistrate.

I was lucky, The Magistrate gave me one against my first wife & put her on a years good behaviour.

suseonline: not the victim who spoke words you didn't like.

I take it, by this statement you don't think that wives can dish out mental violence & controlling behaviour, it's only men do that.
Posted by Jayb, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 8:55:21 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Suseonline,

What if (say) controlling behaviour was regarded as DV when it affected women and included in reporting for DV stats?

Perhaps you might like to look at what questions are being asked of women in those 'surveys' by the health depts - the routine interviewing of women referred to earlier.

Millions of taxpayers' $$ have been spent on DV annually. Yet to date the lion's share appears to have been consumed by bureaucrats and sundry professionals.

We find too that the cause celebre of the century, gay marriage, would be fraught with partner violence. The incidence of gay and lesbian DV is reportedly much higher than heterosexuals. Why wasn't anyone aware before? Where was Tony Jones and what about the ABC's 'fact check(ing)'?
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 23 July 2014 10:47:49 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
No one is saying that some women don't dish out extremely provocative and nasty comments to their partners, because of course they do, and so do men.
What I am trying to say is that it is so much harder to prove verbal and mental abuse.

I have a close friend who is going through a divorce at present, and while her ex-husband has never hit her or been physically violent towards her, he does verbally threaten her and has made the whole financial settlement so scary that she has just agreed to anything in order to get him out of her life.
It isn't right, but she can't 'prove' anything.....
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 24 July 2014 12:21:55 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
I'm in agreement with Suzie's comments on this one. Its looking like some want to maintain the gender war by trying to shift the focus of this article from physical violence to emotional violence.

From my perspective whilst the emotional forms of abuse can be as damaging as the physical they are much harder to prove, physical violence is for the most part easy to identify (other than outright lies about it occuring). Nagging vs occasional reminders of obligations, being honest vs hurtful comments, being controlling over finances vs trying to maintain some financial sanity and a whole other range of actions depend very much on how people perceive them compared to what they are.

On the physical violence issue the boundaries are a ot easier to identify, the role of society is to do its best to ensure that the message is clearly against all violence and that structures around seperation treat both parties fairly where allegations are not proven.

Finding solutions to the emotional abuse is more difficult, again saner laws around divorce and child residency/support might allow some to escape abusive partners more readily (and not have those former partners continue to reek havoc in their lives for year to come).

For start the message about physical violence is still missing much of the mark, it touches on on some of the social violence that occurs but I don't know how much impact its having, I still hear retired footballers and other calling for "bring back the biff", it does rarely addresses female violence except for the occasional bemoaning of the increase in social violence between women.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 24 July 2014 6:31:33 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
<I'm in agreement with Suzie's comments on this one. Its looking like some want to maintain
<the gender war by trying to shift the focus of this article from physical violence to emotional
<violence.

Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 24 July 2014 6:31:33 AM

Without an examination of all the details, that may or may not contribute to physical violence, then how are we as a society going to stop it?

There are in some or many instances, contributing factors that will/may eventually lead to physical violence.

In courses that are designed to teach people in how to deal with violent people, there are techniques taught to try and deescalate the situation. Before a situation eventually escalates into physical violence, there are some times many clues and trigger points that if dealt with properly can defuse a situation, handled incorrectly and it can end tragically.

Suzie before mentioned about blaming the victim. Well the elephant in the room is that at times the person who is the victim is part of the problem.

I have seen the game that is played where a person who is antagonised to the point that they explode in physical violence, and the person who perpetrated and deliberately exacerbated the situation, claims innocence.

Sure there are instances where a person just happens to be in the wrong place, at the wrong time and is the innocent one.

I wish to try and make a comparison, I get attack and bitten by a dog.

Is the dog to blame or am I?

In the situation that I am just walking past and the dog attacks me, No I am not to blame.

But in the situation where I use methods to abuse and stir up the dog and then the dog attacks me. Who is to blame? Me or the dog?

Now If I am a very nasty person, I will plead total innocence to any contributing factor that I may have contributed to the situation.

The dog gets put down, or locked in the pound, mission accomplished and I can then play the victim.
Posted by Wolly B, Thursday, 24 July 2014 7:30:39 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Wolly, I agree to a point but most of us would consider outselves to be somewhat more rational than dogs (or cats when the topic is about uncovered meat). What we sometimes lack is viable options to get out of situations where we risk being pushed past our limits.

I doubt that society can do much about the manipulators other than making it as risk free as possible for people to get away from them and try and avoid family law structures that support the manipulators at the cost of those trying to do the right thing.

I'm of the view that both men and women are capable of abusive behaviour, the use of particular tactics may vary but that overall neither gender is better or worse as human beings. Focussing on either genders failings entrenches the debate in gender wars and hinders movement towards solutions.

R0bert
Posted by R0bert, Thursday, 24 July 2014 8:04:29 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
suse: It isn't right, but she can't 'prove' anything.....

And vica versa, but proving it to a judge is even harder for a man because of gender. I agree with Wolly's scenarios.

I have personally witnessed violence in lesbian groups & the mental violence that goes on in women's shelters, where the councillors are hell bent on convincing battered women to become lesbians. My present wife.

My biggest hiding was from a big butch woman. I was 18, just finished Recruit Training & went to Corps Training in Sydney, on my first leave I went to the Civic Hotel & started talking to nice looking girl. Everybody around me moved tables. Sometime later, this big woman came in & belted the hell out of the girl. I tried to intervene, that's when she started on me. Out of the Lounge down the spiral staircase & out into the Street. I took off & ran all the way to the Prince of Wales with my tail between my legs, bleeding like a stuck pig.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 24 July 2014 9:18:20 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
JayB, now your homophobia shines through your words.
There is no way anyone can 'convince' someone else to 'become' a lesbian.
We are discussing domestic violence here, not homophobia.
See you all on another thread.
Posted by Suseonline, Thursday, 24 July 2014 10:05:25 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
sol: There is no way anyone can 'convince' someone else to 'become' a lesbian.

BS. Very naďve.

We are discussing domestic violence here, not homophobia.

No, same sex violence. Mostly to do with lesbians. Believe me if the Butch catches her girlfriend looking in another direction.... there WILL be violence.
Posted by Jayb, Thursday, 24 July 2014 10:57:02 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
This comes from a NSW government website.

“Lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, and intersex (LGBTI) people experience domestic violence at a similar rate to non-LGBTI women:1 in 3 people.”

http://www.acon.org.au/anti-violence/Same-Sex-Domestic-Violence

1 in 3, but they still don’t mention heterosexual men, or recognise them in any way. Every other type of person is mentioned, except heterosexual men.

Heterosexual men are slowly being pushed off the map, or not regarded as being human or a citizen.

That website recommends reporting to the police, and it states “NSW Police Force policy, with the exception of domestic and family violence, states that officers must respect your wishes to not report a crime.”

“NSW Police Force has a statutory obligation when responding to reports of domestic and family violence. This means that if you report or call police to an incident, Police are required to take action.”

http://www.acon.org.au/anti-violence/report-to-police#police

So it is now obligatory for NSW police to investigate domestic violence, which makes it even more important that men keep a diary or a record of any type of domestic violence carried out by the woman.

Any type of problem from her, any type of abuse, insults, emotional blackmail, slaps, kicks, shoves, nagging, put-downs or being shouted at, and it is recorded for possible use as evidence later on.

If men don’t record it and later report it, men will be pushed even further off the map.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Thursday, 24 July 2014 5:16:36 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
<Heterosexual men are slowly being pushed off the map, or not regarded as being human or <a citizen.

Posted by Incomuicardo, Thursday, 24 July 2014 5:16:36 PM

So true, and there is actually a research paper on how men are missing in social work research.

Jordan Kosberg
Heterosexual Males; A group forgotten by the Profession of Social Work.
Posted by Wolly B, Thursday, 24 July 2014 7:06:11 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Wolly B,

That paper was written about 11 years ago, and nothing has changed.

The gradual dehumanising of heterosexual men in social science is definitely continuing. But I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for any change in social science.

Instead, men should be making records of any type of domestic violence (either emotional or physical) from a woman at home for use latter on.

Also at work, where I have seen a considerable amount of abuse and insults from women towards men.

Any such abuse from women at work should also be recorded.

A quick way of making records is to set up a text database on a mobile and make notes on a mobile.

When women begin to realise that what they say and do could be recorded, I think this will bring far greater change and improvement than any social science research paper.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Thursday, 24 July 2014 8:50:27 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Posted by Incomuicardo, Thursday, 24 July 2014 8:50:27 PM

This is getting off the track of the original article.

<After all, physical and emotional female-on-female violence is problematic for campaigning
<journalists bent on portraying domestic violence as a symptom of patriarchy.

It was more than a few years ago that I read something similar to what this author is presenting, it is however very easy for example the media to overlook contradictions in the way information is disseminated.

I have noticed that many of the fictional American TV shows, will sprout word for word, the false, fictional feminist propaganda about DV or people trafficking and state them as being fact.
Posted by Wolly B, Friday, 25 July 2014 9:33:13 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Wolly B

The academic world is filled with the concept that women are oppressed in every way possible and at all times by men.

And, and so it seems, journalism is becoming similar.

Waiting for the academic world or for journalism to change is not going to help someone who is actually the victim of domestic violence.

But direct action can be taken, and if domestic violence is being carried out on someone, then they make a record of it every time, and then make the decision to report it to the police and have the person charged.

I would think this would bring about a significant reduction in domestic violence almost overnight.

The era of women carrying out domestic violence, and then deciding to get a divorce, and then walking away with the children and most of the assets will come to an end.

More than likely, she will walk away without the children and without the assets, but with a number of domestic violence charges, and the possibility of having to pay compensation money to the husband and the children.
Posted by Incomuicardo, Friday, 25 July 2014 10:02:44 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. 1
  3. 2
  4. 3
  5. ...
  6. 5
  7. 6
  8. 7
  9. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy