The Forum > Article Comments > Stiglitz broadens the horizon > Comments
Stiglitz broadens the horizon : Comments
By Allison Orr, published 8/7/2014Instead, Stiglitz argues that we need new, better, more sophisticated metrics to measure our economies, metrics that consider the real cost and value of things.
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Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 10 July 2014 4:33:54 PM
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Bazz
I would agree with Gail Tverberg regards energy, but as well as energy resources such as oil and coal, I would extend it to cover many other natural resources. For example, Japan has a high GDP, (which is good so far as many economists and politicians are concerned), but it is resource poor and has to rely on imports to survive. Its biocapacity is small, and its ecological footprint is high, leading to a dependency on imports from other countries “While having biocapacity of only 0.6gha per capita, Japan’s Ecological Footprint is 4.1gha per capita. This implies that Japan depends on imports to offset the gap.” http://wwf.panda.org/who_we_are/wwf_offices/japan/?196151/Japan-Ecological-Footprint So, in such a situation, a loss of an important import could damage Japan quite considerably, be it loss of oil, or loss of coal, or loss of wheat or other major food stuffs (and Japan even has to import fish and wood). To ensure sustainability and ensure it can remain viable and independent, a country has to run with a constant biocapacity, and if possible an increasing biocapacity. A country can never have a decreasing biocapacity, or it is in serious trouble. Therefore, biocapacity figures would have to be a part of a country’s National Accounts, and economists and politicians should be talking about biocapacity whenever they mention GDP. Posted by Incomuicardo, Thursday, 10 July 2014 10:19:35 PM
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Incomunuicardo, thanks for the response.
The phrase biocapacity is new to me. At a guess I presume it means amount of food and clothing generation needed from the available land area. Australia's particular difficulty is that we are dependant on 95% and soon to be 100% imported petrol and diesel. A sudden loss of exports from the Middle East would within a couple of weeks mean almost a total collapse of our economy. It would be very serious and our chances of getting a share of other sources would be virtually nil. So there is no planning that could cope with it. However, in the event of moderately fast climbing prices some planning would be feasible, but would require some government direction of adaption. The problem is that politicians just cannot comprehend the problem. Posted by Bazz, Thursday, 10 July 2014 10:58:37 PM
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Bazz,
Biocapacity can be defined as “The capacity of ecosystems to produce useful biological materials and to absorb waste materials generated by humans, using current management schemes and extraction technologies.” So in general terms, how much can be extracted from nature compared to how quickly nature can regenerate. If you look at the trend for Australia, it is very much downhill. http://awsassets.wwf.org.au/downloads/mc079_country_factsheet_australia_living_planet_report_2012_15may12.pdf Australia is heading towards “overshoot”, where the ecological footprint line crosses the biocapacity line. For example, China hit overshoot about 1968, although its biocapacity has now levelled out. http://www.footprintnetwork.org/en/index.php/GFN/page/trends/china/ Many countries have already hit overshoot, and what it means is that they have to beg, borrow or steal resources from another country to survive. Oil is an example of that, but many other resources worldwide are becoming similar. I feel very confident Tony Abbot will shortly address the nation, and tell us what we have to do to get our biocapacity increasing instead of decreasing. Perhaps next week. Posted by Incomuicardo, Friday, 11 July 2014 10:48:33 AM
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Yes, interesting, well it the same message all round.
The politicians keep saying more GDP, more growth, more people more, more, more ! Politicians: Energy ? what about it ? Nothing for you to worry about ! The primary limiting factor is energy. Once it limits, everything limits. Posted by Bazz, Friday, 11 July 2014 1:27:27 PM
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I HAVE DECIDED STIGGIE IS A RED HERRING*
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I have just read an article that I think anyone who is remotely
interested in this subject must read to find out what is really going on.
Gail Tverberg demolishes the conventional economists and their computer models.
She points out how the politicians are now making decisions on matters
that they just don't understand.
I now understand better where Wayne Swan went wrong and where
Joe Hockey is making a major mistake.
Also to increasing our ties to other economies will be a disastrous mistake.
It is a fairly long read but worth every minute it takes.
I would like to hear your comments on Gail's article.
Oh yes even Arjay will be interested as Gail has a shot at Christine Lagarde's
talking about numerology. It astonished her.
http://tinyurl.com/k9zqyfp