To author Richard King [and others] –

I just last week started a general thread titled “Are we Really a “Multi-Cultural” nation? What does it mean?” . . . which makes attempt to get to the heart of this very madness that has again raised its filthy head in your article on tolerance and free speech etc.

I claim that the white Aussies who espouse to fully support equality and respect for ALL differing views and beliefs [mostly the LEFT, the loudest and most deceptive] IN FACT DO NOT in any real or actual sense do such a thing. That is, I note the main indicator to prove this which is how these western pretend equal rights and ‘moral relativism’ groups make open and loud claims that THEY [at least, perhaps not the righties] fully respect and accept all peoples of all differences and they make NO absolute judgements on right and wrong for ethics, religion or other; YET simultaneously they support fully with the rest of white Australia that the legal and moral apparatus in place in Australia [of European/British lineage] is TOTAL, ABSOLUTE, non-negotiable, the most highest and best set-ups . . . and also that NO hint at a thought to remove the system which ALL Australians MUST be subject to in life [and also increasingly too through international law, the rest of world MUST sign treaties etc. containing the same British/European ideals] shall be noticed or considered.

In other words when a person like Hiz-but-Tahrir’s Uthman Badar openly and clearly expresses in public forums that he believes “free speech is a liberal view” and he claims the western liberal “forces via imperialism or colonialism” their own specific European ideals onto the whole world thru Human Rights Declarations as one example. That lends Badir [he thinks] support when he claims “those who condemn 'honour killings' are based in the liberal democracies of the West” . . as both “accuser and moral judge”.

. . . CONTINUED . . .

. . . continued . . .

2 things here –

1) allowing someone to express a view, especially one you believe wrong morally, is nothing IF NOT replied to and debated in honest manner. I am 100% no leftists like Richard have EVER done this or even considered it as an option. Rather than debate him and argue no matter if it gets a bit sensitive Richard King employs the usual leftist avoidance tactic and instead praises this man he disagrees strongly with by throwing out remarks like Badar’s words are “academic prose” and “sounds like a potentially interesting debate”. Richard even states he wishes Badar to be invited back “in order that we can judge for ourselves just how dangerous his ideas actually are” which he says may need "a bit of heat.” indicating he understands that rigourous and uncomfortable debate may be required.

I wish to challenge Richard or anyone else to prove that they have EVER engaged honestly and critically in a debate like that with a person of non-white heritage.

2) Richard claims it is “very open-minded of the organisers to invite a man with such contempt [Badar] for it to come along and say his piece” . . . . .

. . . YET . . . I wonder IF these same “supporters” would ever invite some white man from Darwin NT to come along and speak his mind about how ‘he believes a women should be at home washing and cooking and having babies’?

NO WAY in HELL , and consider this – such a white bigot chauvinist has not gone as far to support killing his wife or daughter if they sleep with another man, NOR does that man force his females to cover their bodies and faces with sheets so that other men cannot look. BUT in comparison the Badar’s who alos have the women stay home and cook and clean and make NO decisions about family, but Badar also wants to kill his women IF she “dishonours” him [men define that too].

WHAT GIVES PEOPLE?

ABSOLUTE, non-negotiable,
Jottiikii,
Doesn't that prove one's as bad as the other or in other words the kettle is calling the pot black.
it's just about impossible which of the two major players is the more stupid.

The "Left" are more than willing to use violence to shut down "Right Wingers":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crftWM-CieU
The "Left" have more in common with the "Right" than they do with Islamists but do you ever see them picketing Hizb-ut Tahrir meetings or other conservative Islamic conferences?
So it's clear that Socialist Alliance, Socialist Alternative, The Greens and Labor all support Islam, that they are scared of offending Muslims and are willing to let them behave as they wish and say what they want as well as shutting down any group who questions or opposes Islam. As I said in another thread, along with the Methodists and the other Left wing christians the "Social Justice" advocates are already living as Dhimmis under Islamic law so let's stop calling them "Leftists" and start using their proper name DHIMMI!

GrahamY –

You claim that the Islamic speaker on “Honour Killings” that was meant to occur, namely Uthman Badar of the Islamic organisation of Hiz-but-Tahrir, did “not necessarily defending honour killings, but taking offence at criticism of them whilst not criticising other things”.

You say you agree with Richard King whose own attempt to dissemble and scatter the truth of the man and his beliefs has him writing that “Badar's speech was going to touch on western hypocrisy. Badar's usual intellectual style is to combine reflexive moral equivalence with strenuous apologetics for Muslim violence and slurs against an entity he elects to call 'the liberal west'.”

Sure mister, that’s sounds almost maybe plausible if you really strain.


First it is utterly not true that Badar has ever or would ever state his official position to be as the above claim, “not necessarily” for anything in particular, BUT just AGAINST western ideals that often criticise his beliefs. ASK Badar to state his official position and DO NOT allow him employ NOT ADMITTING to something but only to NOT DENY it. Why else do you think Badar and folowers are adamantly against the liberal, western position of universal equal rights etc.

IF it is not so that he can then claim with some western understanding to support some practices in Islam the west abhor like fatwas on Salman Rushdie and Danish cartoonists etc.

GrahamY, you state such views as “Better to have these things out in the open where they can be exposed for what they are”

But I ask you, isn’t this exact position the traditional stance of those whom get scorned as racists, Islamophobes and bigots? Indeed if you think you have the right to openly tell Badar and others that you think they are wrong and those practices like honour killings are bad and should not be tolerated, WHEN is ANY leftist going to actually say this in public –‘
- further, if that ever happens HOW can explain the difference to any old rightie bigot [and do not rely on mere myth and prejudice, stereotypes - GET FACTS]

Jottiikii

stop using logic and reasoning. The 'progressives' just can't handle it.