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The Forum > Article Comments > In the Middle East a word can mean a lot > Comments

In the Middle East a word can mean a lot : Comments

By Graham Cooke, published 17/6/2014

The very fact he has highlighted that Australia regards East Jerusalem as 'disputed' rather than 'occupied', puts Australia firmly in Israel's camp.

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Of all the national leaders who have recently walked the world stage, Tony Abbott reminds me most of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the last President of Iran. They are both wild card, trouble making types who are(were) potentially dangerous but mostly silly, and who both contribute(d) less than they imagine.
Posted by halduell, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 9:24:12 AM
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The hatred and denigration of Abbott by apparently everyone who sucks the kool-aid of the Left knows no bounds.

However, the adoption by those lefties of the thinking of the anti-Israel pack is testimony to seriously deficient thinking. The modern history of the Arab people of Palestine is a catalogue of self-harm. They suffer because their 'brothers' in the states that went to war with Israel want them there, as a way to attack Israel. Why adopt the world view that is grounded on propaganda and hate?

The terrirtories in question are disputed.
Posted by ChrisPer, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 12:10:44 PM
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Yet again the Abbott government shows itself to be astonishingly ignorant and foolish. The situation in East Jerusalem is governed by international law, namely the 1949 Geneva Convention and the Hague Regulations of 1907. Territory is "occupied" when as a result of military conflict a country exercises administrative control over the area conquered. It is not "perforative" nor "judgemental" to describe it as such: it is a fact and has been a fact since the 1967 War.

For Brandis et al not to acknowledge that east Jerusalem is occupied means in effect that Australia no longer recognises the application of international humanitarian law. Apart from Israel itself I know of no other country that adopts this position. Even the US, Israel's great friend and protector, does no stoop to this foolishness.

In 2004 the International court of Justice (now also obsolete in Australia's eyes?) ruled in an advisory opinion that territory can be "occupied" even if there is a dispute as to the ownership of that territory. In the 1967 war the land in issue was taken from Jordan which has since renounced its claim in favour of Palestine.

The settlements that Israel is building on that land (all the while claiming a desire for a resolution as part of the "peace process" also constitute war crimes, not only under international law but also Australian law implementing the international obligations.

There was a time when Australia was a reliable supporter of international law. Sadly, that now seems part of the same "historical events" that Australia finds "unhelpful". Abbott et al continue to stumble down a path that is assuredly not in Australia's interests. What compounds the felony is the knowledge that Labour are equally bad.
Posted by James O'Neill, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 12:19:24 PM
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Brandis described the use of the term ‘occupied’ as ‘judging matters that were still under discussion’ in the Palestinian- Israeli negotiations. He also called it a ‘tendentious’ description. On seeking to gain accuracy as to the meaning of this term I found the following- "When something is tendentious, it shows a bias towards a particular point of view, especially one that people disagree about. It shares a root with the word, tendency, which means leaning towards acting a certain way. If you have the tendency to talk in a tendentious manner about politics, people might tend to avoid you at parties.”

I wonder if Brandis and Abbott are avoided at parties for being tendentious in attempting to sanitise terminology about what is clearly a recognised occupation not merely an 'historic event'.
The Occupation of Palestine exists NOW, despite Israel's and now Australia's efforts and stealth at denying it on the world stage.
Posted by wu wai, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 12:32:04 PM
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Is the stupidity i.e. unbridled vindictiveness of the Left a psychological disorder or is it as I suspect, genetic ?
I know that incest can cause some of these problem but Asexuals ? That's a new phenomenon.
Posted by individual, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 3:10:09 PM
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Brandis has decided that progress towards a resolution of the problem, and a way forward for Palestinians to achieve their objective of an in dependant state, would more readily be achieve when an accurate use of terms, such as 'disputed' is used. it is Australian policy for Palestinians to achieve a safe, peacefully state as soon as possible. His use of accurate terms will only assist in that policy outcome. He has reinforced Australian policy objectives in this instance and I could not agree more with him. Well done to he, the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister.
Posted by Prompete, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 4:13:13 PM
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Words can and do mean a lot, as are agreements written in them, regularly dismissed with the flourish of a pen.
If words were rain, the middle east would be busy building arks, and getting ready for the great flood that must surely follow.
The time for endless words and their endless interpretations are over!
The words we won't, must be followed with we must!
We simply do not have the luxury of any more time wasting, and or, waiting for sectarian violence to inflame the entire Middle East.
If Iran joins the fray in Iraq, just how long does anyone expect, Saudi, Turkey and Egypt, will remain on the sidelines?
And with the increasing involvement, of various Sunni nations, expanding a conflict, that has only one possible outcome.
A world war, as the Suez and oil supplies are increasingly threatened; and one where out of simple self interest, Israel must chose sides!.
The Israelis are fools, who could have negotiated a peaceful lasting twin state solution, decades ago, if only there hadn't been typical Shylock intransigence, demanding their pound of owed to them, flesh, [spoils of war,] or if you will, additional territory!
Entirely unproven words on crumbling ancient parchment, patently refuted by emerging archaeological evidence, proves nothing, save their claims that God gave their forbears some land, are among a list, of increasingly fanciful fairy tales!
Or "story telling" is more than tradition, in those parts of a disputed world!?
Time to bury the hatchet, preferably not in the backs of each others heads, and just get on with it!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 4:30:35 PM
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Well, a certain lobby here at home might be reveling in this...

I digress. Abbott and friends might like to observe a corresponding relation between a rise in anti-Semitism in France and a growing Muslim population. A word can mean a lot in the Middle-East? Well, the word can spread to the respective factions established in Australia. 

Outremer has always been disputed; we've just seen another fool do his bit to make it all the more problematic.
Posted by Napoleon, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 5:02:34 PM
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Australia always was in Israel's camp, Graham Cook.

We were never in the camp of the Muslims, who have hijacked western planes, and carried out numerous acts of terrorism. And the more they do that, Graham, the more we support Israel and hate the Muslims.

But people like you just love to be contrarians. Whatever most people think, you take the opposite view to show how "intelligent" you are. That is because you have this potty idea that smart people always oppose the opinions of the majority. So you go into bat for a failed religion who hates every freedom that you love, and who wants to destroy everything you support, and you can't see any problem with that?

Every single Muslim country which is not floating on an ocean of oil, or who does not have a bunch of Chinese running the economy, is an economic basket case. Israel is the only middle eastern nation even resembling a democracy and it's wealth is entirely a product of it's own people's high intelligence. But you hate the Israelis because they are not perfect, while studiously ignoring the anarchy that surrounds them in every Muslim country.

All the major religions on the planet bar Islam gets along with each other fairly well. But every one of these religions has a problem with Islam. Nobody lives in peace with Islam because the problem is Islam, stupid. The Muslims are becoming the most despised people on this planet and if want us to feel sorry for them, and to support them on anything, then you are right out of luck.
Posted by LEGO, Tuesday, 17 June 2014 8:40:48 PM
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Lego ... you are uninformed or just plain ignorant in your racist rants towards Islam. Israel has become the rogue state (with no complete borders of its own) of the world in war crimes, human rights abuses, stealing of Palestinian land and resources, ethnic cleansing and apparthied.
Zionism runs Israel, which is not a religion but an ideology, a ruthless racist ideology which continues to shock the world. Under international law, (can you even read or understand international law?)everything Israel does beyond the 67 borders is illegal, as recognised by all other countries of the UN!

The illegal settlers over the green line of 1967 continue to beat, kill, burn down olive trees, and a range of other abuses, even committed against school children on their way to school, who have to be escorted by the IOF to protect them from the settlers. Fundamentalism in Israel and the occupied territories is reaching a par with say, the Islamic fundamentalists.
I have spent time in the Middle East and as a non believer was treated with kindness and respect. Israel however does not allow differing views and you can be refused entry or put through the most humiliating and frightening experience upon entry at their airport.
Palestine cannot function economically when there are so many barriers imposed by the fundamentalist land of Israel. Gaza is known as the largest open air prison in the world. Its children are often killed or kidnapped and kept in Israeli prisons without charge, subjected to threats, beatings and torture to become information gatherers for Israel. and what about the apparthied wall that cuts some Palestinian farmers of being able to farm their lands.
Muslims are not the most despised religion in the world, Judaism is and thats a fact. I am of the mind that we should be keeping a close watch on the Jewish lobbiests and groups in Australia and their impact on our federal laws and politicians. You Lego are so so wrong and extremely ignorant of the facts, and it seems a racist person by nature, here only to give disinformation.
Posted by Janine, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 10:17:15 AM
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Janine,
if your aim was to try & convince sane people that the Isaelis are worse than the Palestinians then you're wasting your time on the key board.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 3:16:05 PM
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A number of seemingly impassable problems are at play here.

First both the Jews and the Muslims are extremely self-centred, self-important and supremacist thinking cultures. That is they are both very racist and elitist.

Just because the Jews suffered under the Nazis does not negate te very possibility that the Jews can still be racist and self-important race that believes themselves superior to all others. Similarly just because many Muslim nations around the Israeli area are poorer than the Jews in global circles does not mean the Muslims are definitely just victims but I think they also are very, very racist.

To make the mix more explosive is how both the Jews and Muslims have strong historical and religious connections to the areas in question.

I think personally religion needs to be told to be not important, maybe historical ties to certain regions can remain.

However it is not just the wealthy Zionists who are making the resolution impossible as many claim but in some ways the muslim world as a collective is to blame for the fear that Israel feels about being seure amongst those that are blood thirsty for them.

Muslims need to admit and the Left of the west must not help them ignore the issues, that the Arab coalitions DID openly express they desired the utter annihilation of all Jews before the 1967 war in which Israel beat them and redrew the borders they claim as buffers for security.

The left cannot allow th muslims world to continue to ignore their part in the conflict, that they do only fuels those in Zionist movement who want war and oppression of the Arabs.
Posted by Jottiikii, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 5:09:43 PM
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individual,

Sane people outside of this conflict should want to have naught to do with it. There's benevolence from both factions, but amounting to such infinitesimal influence that extremism remains the undisputed master. The thesis here remains: what was the point of Abbott doing this? He's having too many 'Ange and Mike' moments...

But for the sake of counterbalance, does a certain infamous, albeit unknown quote from the late Ariel Sharon really appeal to continual conservative support for Israel? 
Posted by Napoleon, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 5:17:28 PM
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the left have always loved words which they can twist. Current defintion of 'disputed' is far closer to the truth. The truth is not something the anti Israel brigade have ever been interested in.
Posted by runner, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 5:43:54 PM
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Janine, you are either uninformed or just plain ignorant of the realities of Islam. Islam is not just a religion, it is a complete social, legal, political, dietary and religious system that was created by a paedophile warlord to make his warriors invincible in battle, and to justify his dreams of military conquest. It is a religion which dictates that females (like you) are the property of men, who may be beaten by their fathers and husbands with a rod, who's length and width are described in the Koran. How on Earth you can as a female and a liberal, can defend such a misogynistic and self evidently failed religion, where child brides, female circumcision, and honour killings are the norm, is beyond me.

Where the hell are all the Jews in Arab countries? They have been ethnically cleansed long ago, starting with Mohammad in Mecca 1300 years ago. But the Muslims are not racist, they will happily ethnically cleanse Christians, Hindus and Buddhists with equal vigour, and they have been doing just that for 1300 years. For these people to cry about the Jews doing to them, what they have been doing to everybody else for centuries (and are still doing today in Indonesia, The Philippines, and Egypt) is more worthy of hilarity that serious consideration.

Prior to the Six Day War, liberals like yourself totally supported Israel. The Arabs were bragging to everybody that they were going to wipe Israel clean off the map. And people like yourself reflexively always take the side of the losers against the winners. Winners are always oppressors, and losers always the oppressed. Israel's greatest sin was that it refused to be exterminated. Israel just kept winning, and to people like yourself, that automatically changed their status to the oppressors.

So now we see educated and totally naive young people like yourself supporting a religion which even Hitler praised, and who's adherents carry out endless acts of terrorism because that is what their Koran mandates, while pointing the finger at their customary victims who are fighting back
Posted by LEGO, Wednesday, 18 June 2014 6:49:57 PM
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Yep Lego, spot-on.

The mullahs and imams would be tickled pink with the likes of Janine and James and a few (un)noteworthy others on OLO spouting their propaganda.
Posted by SPQR, Friday, 20 June 2014 7:00:50 AM
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