Spindoc says I don't really care about or have compassion for the vulnerable; that I wouldn't understand their situation. Well I'll just say that's a very big assumption. Perhaps I know more than you think. And BTW in my previous article I list a whole series of policies that could be implemented if the Government broke with its small government Ideology. The main purpose of this article, however, was to critique the Budget. And there wasn't the scope to provide some comprehensive 'counter-platform'. (though I've done a lot of that sort of stuff before)

He also says I'm 'moving away from mainstream Australia'. Well I'd look at the response to the Budget; and Abbott's falling levels of support. Even despite the spin of the Murdoch press etc.

And yes I know that the retirement age won't get to 70 for some time. And that Labor was pressing for a 67 retirement age. Labor is just as wrong on that point. But my point was to ask 'Lego' to walk in the shoes of those who will be in that position in the future. They think they can beat us through 'divide and conquer' and self-interest. The "it wont' affect me" mindset. Only real solidarity can beat these kind of attacks on our social rights.

Other countries are heading to a higher retirement age also because capitalism demands economic expansion in order to maintain stability on its own terms. But with a 'hybrid system' (the best possible for now) we could implement efficiencies that maintain living standards without intensifying exploitation. We shouldn't accept intensifying exploitation and the withdrawal of basic social rights while we are in the midst of plenty.

‘morning Tristan,

What is it with progressives and rhetoric? Everything has to be changed just enough to make room for narrative theory.

You verbal me by suggesting I said << I don't really care about or have compassion for the vulnerable; that I wouldn't understand their situation.>>

Rubbish, I said nothing of the sort.

What I did say was << what was missing from your article, was any genuine compassion for social justice and equity. >> You projected political justice for you rather than social justice for others.

You said << Labor was pressing for a 67 retirement age>> “Pressing? Rubbish Tristan,

“Changes brought in by the Rudd Labor government mean that the qualifying age will gradually increase to 67 by July 2023.” Not “pressing” Tristan, legislated.

You said, << I know that the retirement age won't get to 70 for some time >> “some time” No Tristan, specifically 2035!

You said, << Other countries are heading to a higher retirement age also >>. “Heading” Tristan? Rubbish, those nations listed are not “heading”, they are already legislated!

See what happens when you inject narrative theory, rhetoric and platitudes? The “facts” mysteriously disappear and are replaced by moral/value propositions.

Your problem is that because we can identify rhetoric and platitudes, their traction is in decline.

As for the rest, lets just have a look at that.

<< the spin of the Murdoch press etc >>, << in the shoes of those who will be in that position in the future >>, <<divide and conquer>>, << real solidarity>>, << attacks on our social rights >>, << beat us through self-interest >>, << without intensifying exploitation >>, << withdrawal of basic social rights >> and all << while we are in the midst of plenty >>. Really?

Rhetoric and platitudes, do you have a book with all this stuff in it?

Abbott and the LNP are looking at the next election whilst you and the rest of the progressives play “ rhetorical” Ouija Board.

Abbott has intellect, you have rhetoric. Ooops!

Yoo Hoo Tristan

Allowing for Inflation, the GDP of Australia has doubled from 1965 (25.4 USD Billion) to 1371.8 USD billion in December, 2011. Growth has averaged 4 % per annum in the past decade alone, increasing GDP by 50 %.

Overall since 1965 the country is 2X richer, while the number on welfare is 5X.

The ageing population would be one explanation, but most baby boomers have yet to retire. Could the answer be that the prime reason for poverty in a wealthy country like Australia, with all of its attendant intractable social problems, is because we insist on importing it?

Aghans alone have employment rates of only 6% after five years of residence. Iranians are the next group most at risk from long unemployment and poverty, with 88% still unemployed after five years. In Europe, 80% of the Muslim population is on welfare benefits.

Angela Merkel summed it up nicely. The reason for European stagnation, she said, was because "Europe had 12% of the world's population, 26% of the world's manufacturing capability, and 56% of the world's welfare recipients."

In 1965, 3 % of the working age population in Australia was on welfare benefits of one sort or another. Now 16 % of adults rely on welfare. This is bad for them, bad for their children and is financially unsustainable – ie bad for taxpayers. Another take on this – in 1965 there were 22 taxpayers for every one person on welfare; now the number is 5.

DSP - every week 1,000 About 830,000 Australians currently receive the more join that tally. The cost of funding the DSP will rise from $15 billion each year to $18 billion by 2016-17.

Extrapolate forward and you see a vision of Greece, Spain, Cypress, and Ireland, with their own national insolvency problems. The populations of these countries and their elected representatives were acutely aware of their financial insolvency, decades ago. But like irresponsible creditors with a new credit card, they borrowed until they could borrow no more, and they wished away their problems until the bailiffs arrived.

D0 I want to work until I am 70, Tristan? You bloody bet I do. My last boss was Bill McPhee from JR Electrics at Ingleburn, he was 71, and the hardest worker of our crew. I was proud of him and proud to be his employee. If I can work, I will work.

It is hard to get a job when you are my age, but I just beat out a whole bunch of younger men for a job with Heyday Group. They hired 12 "casuals" to try us out and "let go" of 11 of them yesterday.(Friday 16th) But I am still working. Heyday keeps offering me a job because they know I am a productive and reliable worker. But they work 10 hours a day for six days a week (8 on Friday and 6 on Saturday) and it is just a bit much at my age, so I will probably refuse the job. And I am sick of paying too much tax to keep imported foreigners. Have you been in a social security office recently, Tristan? Of course not. Go in one and play "spot the Aussie."

I came from a Housing Commission area Tristan, and if you don't think that welfare fraud is endemic then you have lived a sheltered life. Certain ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in crime statistics and the long term unemployed. God knows how many of them are working as well. As you know, the ABS was forbidden to collate and analyse any statistics relating to ethnic crime because the government wanted to buy the ethnic vote.

There are 830,000 people on the DSP, which is more wounded than we had in two world wars. Maybe you were brought up in some leafy area perfumed with magnolia trees, but I came from the mean streets and I can sure smell a rat. Until you wake up that widespread welfare fraud, poor immigration policies and featherbedding in government jobs is killing your country, I won't take your holier than thou attitude seriously.

LEGO; You speak of Disability Pension costing what - $15 billion- but make no account for the fact that's in a $1.6 Trillion dollar economy. And you take pensioners to task for the cost to the economy; But when you speak of pensioners we're talking about a whole variety of people - People in between jobs, People who have worked all their lives, people who are studying, people who are genuinely disabled, sole parents who have been deserted and need help raising their kids... Pensions are a form of collective social insurance that all of us should want for ourselves - but also our friends, family and loved ones... We pay for it "because that could be us one day"; and also hopefully because we feel solidarity with our fellow human beings - as it could be them one day too...

You may well want to work until you're in your 70s. But many people - after working all their lives - would like to study; engage in art - music, literature, painting, sculpture; engage in active citizenship; look after their health and fitness; Perhaps travel after having put if off all their lives... For decades the male retirement age was 65. There are good arguments for a retirement age of 60...

The point is thus: "What is a good society?" - is it 'more consumption and more production until we drive ourselves into the ground'; Or is it maximising our human potential and maximising good health, long life, mutual love and respect, and happiness?

Good on you Lego, your the subservient type of person that Gina Rhinehart wants as an employee !!