...Joe and Tone have now firmly distanced yourselves from the "Poor White Trash" of Asia.

This is the most responsible budget in nearly a decade, with the first genuine attempt to balance the budget and avoid losing the AAA credit rating that Howard achieved.

http://resources1.news.com.au/images/2014/05/15/1226919/503061-6e3f9e7e-dc0a-11e3-8e7a-50682b5c038f.jpg

As Thatcher said, "The problem with socialists is that eventually they run out of other people's money."

The debt is not horrific by world standards, but the worst of the Labor legacy is the record high spending / low tax legacy they left which is threatening decades of deficit and eventually to match the debts of the EU countries.

Shadow Minister;

a) the 'other peoples' money' argument doesn't wash when its applied to social insurance or collective consumption. That's money we 'spend' (collectively) for ourselves and our loved ones - for security and peace of mind apart from anything else. (eg: Disability Insurance; or Unemployment insurance in case we lose our jobs; or to defend us from a desperate reserve army of labour being used to destroy our wages and conditions...).

b) The Redistribution argument is harder to press is you are ideologically opposed to it per se... But my position is that 'labour market forces' do not necessarily deliver fair results. Hard working cleaners, child care workers, aged care workers get paid very little for very hard work...

Finally I believe in the maxim "from each according to ability, to each according to need'....

But I expect you believe in a twisted version of 'meritocracy' where we are all left 'to sink or swim' on our own. Though the most radical proponent of meritocracy - Henri Saint-Simon - opposed inheritance full stop... I doubt the Conservatives here would agree with that....

Tristan, you write with a nonchalant and apparently thoughtful concern for the disadvantaged, but that slogan 'from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs reveals that your thinking is corrupt. Yourthinking is based in an ideology that killed 120 million people in the last century and condemns whole populations to horrific poverty in the few criminal states that still think that way.

International freeing of trade, comparative advantage and the initiative of entrepreneurship haave lifted the human race from squalor, whether squalor created by ignorant and oppressive feudalism, or the ignorant and oppressive feudalism that socialists created.

The entitled class, the taker class can loot the productivity of the employed maker class only so far, until you create Greece, or worse Cuba or Venezuela.

Tristan Ewins's arguments are like multi-faceted slivers of gemstone. No matter which way you look at them, they're always shallow.

Tristan,

Don't verbal me, I simply commented on the rapidly growing deficit. So please cease your sanctimonious finger wagging.

Labor left a debt of 12% of GDP or nearly 50% of the annual budget. On top of that they committed to handouts and programmes that left the debt growing by nearly 3% of GDP p.a. with interest already consuming $12b p.a. or 3%. Hence the government is spending other people's money.

Welfare and medical already consume about 58% of the budget, and are growing faster than inflation at about 6%. It pretty much doesn't matter what one does with the rest of the budget, without tackling welfare and medicare, there is no chance of balancing the budget or retaining the AAA rating that Howard achieved.

Agree Tristan!
But it's all to easy to critique someone who may genuinely believe, that austerity for those already well and truly suffering it, is the only viable answer!
And just as flawed as the makers and takers argument, of those who believe they entitled to take a virtual whip to others, in order to squeeze a little more production out of them, or even more unpaid overtime etc!
And sadly, a few incorrigible wouldn't work in an iron lung types, is all they need to defend their position, and their right to unfairly exploit others?
A real budget emergency, was an opportunity, to engage with the super funds of Australia, and give them impossible to refuse reasons, for investing our wealth here!
As opposed to foreign takers, many who have relied on debt and other people's money to grow personal fortunes; and assisted and abetted in creating a huge record and massively growing foreign debt, reportedly already larger than China total foreign reserve!
The structural deficit could have been fixed by rolling back welfare for the rich, the real taker class in this country!?
Why, left as it is, tax breaks on the wealthy's super, will soon be twice as much as the aged pension!
And these are the very same people who paid tax rates up to 60 cents in the dollar; and built Australia, and indeed, all that recent governments, in recent years, have privatized!
Which is arguably the real reason we have a budget deficit, given the combined revenue streams of all we have privatized thus far, earns more for the new owners, that the sum total of the structural deficit!
And there isn't as much as a single example where privatization has resulted in lower retail costs, but plenty of gold plated examples, were captive consumers were forced to pay through the nose!
And then the witless call the poorest among us, the taker class!
It not as though these people have buried their combined heads in the sand, but perhaps somewhere far more warm and comfortable?
Rhrosty.

Chris, blaming Marx or all Marxists for the crimes of Stalin is like blaming Archbishop Romero for the crimes of PInochet or Franco , because they all considered themselves Catholic. ALso Marxists like Karl Kautsky and Rosa Luxemburg were critical of Lenin way before things got exponentially worse with Stalin. Marxist social democrats were amongst the first and amongst the strongest and the first advocates of democracy.

What a cruel, selfish, unforgiving, barbaric country Australia has become.

Despite a feeling of sick horror that it's all come to this, it's not that big a surprise. The conservative agenda declared all-out war on the western welfare system some time ago and has made it abundantly clear that it will not rest until that system is totally annihilated.

At least the agenda is out in the open now - in all its naked ugliness.

To the author
Healthcare, a better option woukd be to provide the first say four visits per year free, then charge after that. You could also look at having doctors voice their opinions on whether they feel more free fists are warranted.

Education. This is a warning sign to current students and parents alike, perform, or risk being left behind.

For the parents, it's a warning that if you are going to have kids, you MUST provide the effort to give them the best possible start. Not just dump them when the subsidy runs out, which is often the case with many young ones today.

Pensions. So what, are you suggesting we leave it at age 65 forever?

The facts are, we start work latter, we draw along the way, we live longer, yet you want us to retire at the same age, having contributed less, and having also accumulated super along the way.

Earning or learning, so what's wrong with that?

This budget once and for all spells an end to the tax payer funded free lunch. It's about time!

I've read enough, so perhaps you can run for leader of the bleeding hearts brigade.

One final point, what do you see as the alternative?

Tristian some interesting points there.
Cleaners working hard. Few deny that but, are you suggesting they be paid the same as a person who made the most of their opportunities to better educate and/or increase their skill levels, resulting in a higher reward for their efforts? If you do, then we would be a nation of cleaners.

We live in a society whereby the rich support the poor, which is kind of arse up if you ask me. It is also why so many avoid taxes because the rewards for doing the right thing are not there.

While I am the first to admit that the plan for the unemployed is too harsh, something has to be done to sever the leeches from the public tit, because frankly, they have had it too easy for too long at the expense of the higher end of the workforce. Enough is enough!

On the other hand, what is the problem of expecting someone who is not earning, to be learning in order to receive benefits. Surely that's not a huge ask, because after all, in return for receiving benefits, one is supposed to be actively seeking work. Now they will be improving their skills, so making finding a job a more realistic option.

I watched a bleeding heart program last night on young ones in Sydney out of work. Some of the common denominators were, crap everywhere hanging out of their faces, tattoos (no doubt paid for by the dole) and colored hair, one being bright blue.

I have no interest in supporting this type of youth. Send them back to their parents I say.

Diver Dan sorry to destroy your belief system but Howard did not give us the triple A rating ! It was the Labor Government , you are free to verify it if you want, much better to research beforehand though otherwise people get the wrong impression and your validity tends to flounder :)

Hi trapdiocan,

This is from my source which contradicts your assertion. Can you provide your link please?

“Liberal MP Kelly O’Dwyer said Mr Swan’s ownership of Australia’s favourable credit rating was one of the “myths that the Labor Party have tried to perpetuate” about the economy.

“They like to claim the AAA credit rating. In fact it was under the Labor Party that we lost our AAA credit rating in 1986 and 1989,” Ms O’Dwyer told Sky News.

“We got it back with Moody’s and Standard and Poors (during the Howard government) because we repaid back Labor’s debt.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/budget-2014/bomb-thrower-tony-abbott-threatens-aaa-credit-rating-former-treasurer-wayne-swan/story-fnmes6jc-1226909934834

It is obvious that Australia has been taken over by Americans! Soon, we too will be attacking and invading other countries and plundering the B'Jesus out of them and torturing and rendering and raping.

The antics of Fuehrer Abbott the Immaculate have to be seen to be believed and if I have to listen to Commandant Korman one more time I will haff to blotty-well invade Germany on my own and finish the job we started there!

Did you realize that we won WW2? And which two nations are on top of the wealthy Kings of the Castle? Japan and Germany of course!

It is obvious that most Australians are under the influence of drugs and mind-bending drugs supplied by Murdoch and his gang of 'born-to-rule' children (produced by the perfect impregnation techniques of the German and the Japanese Gestapo who sang:

"In and out, in and out. Make her yell, make her shout!"

Yeah, Brave New World. It's perfect for con-men and criminals!

Ok a few points in response....

Yes there should be some financial incentive to develop skills. But people are motivated by more than money - they want a rewarding career. If anything cleaners deserve greater payment - because their menial jobs are so difficult and alienating. No not absolute parity - but significantly higher minimum wages, yes. And much more for skilled labourers in aged care, child care etc.

Also no-one wants to be stuck on Newstart or Youth Allowance. No one can make ends meet on that without support from family. And for those without such support we will see a rise in homelessness and crime. Instead of intervening positively at this crucial point in a young person's life positively - it will likely condemn them to a life 'at the bottom of the pile' and 'at the fringes'. I make the point in the article that this is because the government wants a 'reserve army' of desperate people - who will not only be exploited - but whose desperation might be used to drive down the wages and conditions of other workers...

Further: Why not retain a retirement age of 65? What is most important in life? More and more consumption; or quality of life for people who have been working all their lives? It is the nature of a capitalism which 'has its priorities all wrong'. Long, healthy, rewarding lives - or drive people into the ground until they're at death's door. What's better?

Re: The Coalition paying off debt - Yes, at the cost of privatising valuable income-bearing assets. Not just the Libs either. Look how much the Commonwealth Bank makes today - Flogged off by Keating. Telstra flogged off by Howard. (and then $8 to buy back access to pits and wires fir NBN)

Sorry I mean $8 billion; and Rhrosty - agree with many of your points - thankyou. :-)

Tristan you do talk so much twaddle.

No one wants to be on new start you say. Most of them are working cash in hand a day or two a week at least, & have a quite nice income thank you.

My lady is a councilor with a charity doing job network in town. She handles the long term unemployed.

She has to breach a dozen or so a week to get them to turn up for network appointments or actual job interviews.

She lives in town usually, but sometimes has to stay out here for a period, after being threatened AGAIN, by some of the bludgers she has to deal with.

With some they think are genuine job seekers they will pay for courses, buy them clothes for interviews, & even fix their cars where there is no transport, then get them a job.

About half only turn up for week or two, but can't get out of bed after that. Many don't even last a week.

She was almost as naive as you about these poor dears, before she became involved. Hell she even thought most of the homeless were that way against their will.

With other charities they organized a bed, meal, shower & safety every night for $100 a fortnight. Most of the bums wouldn't pay that much of their handout. They were more interested in grog.

Most of these bums aren't worth the dregs from the bottom of a teapot, let alone sympathy.

If I hear any more bulldust about the vulnerable, disadvantaged, or underprivileged I'm going to throw up.

Hasbeen

'If I hear any more bulldust about the vulnerable, disadvantaged, or underprivileged I'm going to throw up'.

Here's a bucket. Heave away, Hazza!

And remember the age of entitlement is over, so make sure you clean up your own mess.

Tristan, I absolutely agree with you in everything you said. Well done.

I am 62 years old and provided that Australia does not go broke before I die I could not care less about our clearly worsening economic outlook. It's all about me, me, me, Tristan.

I know that the number of people permanently on Disability pensions has doubled in twenty years, and I know that is really susso but I don't care. They are fellow bludgers and if I scratch their backs, they will scratch mine. We all know that all we have to do is to vote Labor and Labor will tax, spend and borrow to buy our votes until like Portugal, Spain, and Greece, the bailiff's arrive and take our credit card off us.

Labor will win the next election because there are too many people who are, or will soon have, their snouts and front trotters in the taxpayer's trough. We have to get rid of Abbot because we have a vested interest to keep the money flowing into our pockets. It will be your kids, Tristan, who will end up with the bill but I will be in Hell with Shocky, Hasbeen and Spindoc, so why should I care?

so why should I care?
Lego,
Wow, you could be Australian of the year!

‘morning Tristan,

Your last line is very telling;

<< In the meantime progressive social movements need to coalesce and prepare for the fight of their lives. >> “Their” lives?

We all know just how much trouble you are in. All you have to do is check the number of articles and threads on OLO that are squawking progressive mantra’s.

I agree, the progressive social movement must be saved because it’s more important to you than the “vulnerable” you claim to represent. They are simply a vehicle for your political ideology.

Let me tell you what was missing from your article, it was any genuine compassion for social justice and equity. All you actually offered was a political rant directed at the government.

No alternatives, no policies, no analysis, no balance, no concern whatsoever and most of all, absolutely no concern for the future generations that will otherwise be paying for progressive incompetence, because everything you said was political.

You are right though, the progressives are fighting for their lives and doing it in such a way that you are moving further and further away from mainstream Australia. That’s fine by me as I’m reminded of Napoleon’s words, “never interrupt your enemy whilst they are making mistakes”.

You still have a strong following though, many university students, humanities academia, Fairfax, The Guardian, the Conversation, GetUp, the ABC, the Greens, trade union officials and the progressive political elites. What a delightful “self referential network” that lot are.

Mm! How all that “support” looking Tristan?

All these supporters are doing for you at the moment, is to highlight to middle Australia just what a bunch of malcontents progressives are.

What you have to decide now is what the new Senators will do in July. Will they vote to retain their six year appointments, very handsome salaries, perks, expenses, privileges, prestige, gold passes and all that lovely pension?

Or will they toss it all in and agree with you?

Dream on Tristan, dream on

Lego talks of a crisis and of 'the country going broke'; But Australian debt is about 12 per cent of GDP compared with 100% in the US and 200% in Japan.

He also talks of the number of people on Disability Pension. But he doesn't go after anyone specific. He may as well ask Andrew Robb if he was faking his depression... Now that would be callous and offensive - but it's essentially what you're driving at.

The new test for people on Disability Pension is that they should be forced to work if they can work only 8 hours a week. That's pretty severe.

But I'm just in favour of the carrot rather than the stick; and upholding the principle 'from each according to ability, to each according to need'. Providing community work at the minimum wage on top of the DSP could get some of these people working... So long as there was flexibility and the appropriate accommodations. eg: For some people the intensity of mental illness comes and goes; sometimes people cannot concentrate or drive; sometimes it's possible to work; sometimes it's not.

You talk of 'people with snouts in the trough'. But no talk of massive superannuation concessions; Private Health Insurance subsidies for the rich; Parental Leave for millionaires; MPs 'wage pause' of only one year; The fact we have one of the highest paid executives in the world... And no mention of infrastructure privatisation which is 'a license to print money' fleecing the public. (both ALP and the Libs guilty on that point)

You say you're 62. Do you want to work to 70? Do you have arthritis? Were you looking forward to retiring after paying taxes all your life? And yet you want to go after the disabled rather than look at what Abbott is doing...

And that's before we even talk about doubling or tripling university fees; with a massive hike in interest; And students whose working life is interrupted; who don't finish their degrees; acquire a less-well-paying job - well they're looking at a lifetime debt...

There's nothing that's looks more ME, ME, ME, than a bloated billionaire, with entirely unearned inherited wealth, telling the rest of us, WE have to work much harder for a lot less!
You guys really Hiss me right off.
The problems with the lessons of history, the tea party types and blame shifters among us, never ever learn them?
The only trick we need to learn is how to create a much bigger economic pie, and then just slice out larger shares for everyone!
And it's just not that hard!
All we need is cheaper tax, and just by just eliminating all the parasites who earn their income from costly complexity, or broker barons/middleman profit demanding, double handling.
And then build cheaper than coal thorium rectors, as income earning, (self funding) projects for the national budget!
Build that and a peeled to the bone tax system and they will come, as millions of self funded retirees, high tech companies, and the 95% of corporate Australia, that have relocated offshore, just to save tax!
What we need is compelling reasons for them to return!
After all, 50% of something, is always going to look a lot better than the 100% of nothing we get now, as tax from these offshore corporations; some with budgets bigger than many sovereign nations!
Stop squabbling over the spoils of economic defeat/sold down the river economic sovereignty, and just get on with winning for a change!
And wouldn't that make a nice change, than fight in the flamin lifeboat, we call Australia. [Only around 2% of welfare recipients are those Hasbeen righteously rails against! The other 98% don't deserve to be asked to carry the blame!]
Too much of that self defeating nonsense and all we will accomplish, is to sink lifeboat Australia!
It's WE against the world, not US or THEM against each other!
Get it?
Rhrosty.

‘morning Tristan,

Desperation to make your case is no excuse for your mendacity and obfuscation. You are an educated man and should be capable of making your point without such nonsense.

LEGO told you he was 62, to which you replied << Do you want to work to 70?>>

Utterly irrelevant and you know it.

LEGO, like everyone else will be eligible at 65.

The last ALP government has already legislated to change the pension eligibility age to 67 from 2023.

We will be in good company with other leading nations who already have higher pension eligibility such as Germany 67, Italy 67, Norway 67, Netherlands 67, UK 68 and USA 67.

LEGO will NOT be required to work until he is 70, that comes into effect in 2035 and you damn well know it.

Stop trying to whip up alarm by printing rubbish, you have a responsibility as a professional writer and teacher, you owe much better to intelligent readers.

Cut the Cr*p Tristan.

Spindoc says I don't really care about or have compassion for the vulnerable; that I wouldn't understand their situation. Well I'll just say that's a very big assumption. Perhaps I know more than you think. And BTW in my previous article I list a whole series of policies that could be implemented if the Government broke with its small government Ideology. The main purpose of this article, however, was to critique the Budget. And there wasn't the scope to provide some comprehensive 'counter-platform'. (though I've done a lot of that sort of stuff before)

He also says I'm 'moving away from mainstream Australia'. Well I'd look at the response to the Budget; and Abbott's falling levels of support. Even despite the spin of the Murdoch press etc.

And yes I know that the retirement age won't get to 70 for some time. And that Labor was pressing for a 67 retirement age. Labor is just as wrong on that point. But my point was to ask 'Lego' to walk in the shoes of those who will be in that position in the future. They think they can beat us through 'divide and conquer' and self-interest. The "it wont' affect me" mindset. Only real solidarity can beat these kind of attacks on our social rights.

Other countries are heading to a higher retirement age also because capitalism demands economic expansion in order to maintain stability on its own terms. But with a 'hybrid system' (the best possible for now) we could implement efficiencies that maintain living standards without intensifying exploitation. We shouldn't accept intensifying exploitation and the withdrawal of basic social rights while we are in the midst of plenty.

‘morning Tristan,

What is it with progressives and rhetoric? Everything has to be changed just enough to make room for narrative theory.

You verbal me by suggesting I said << I don't really care about or have compassion for the vulnerable; that I wouldn't understand their situation.>>

Rubbish, I said nothing of the sort.

What I did say was << what was missing from your article, was any genuine compassion for social justice and equity. >> You projected political justice for you rather than social justice for others.

You said << Labor was pressing for a 67 retirement age>> “Pressing? Rubbish Tristan,

“Changes brought in by the Rudd Labor government mean that the qualifying age will gradually increase to 67 by July 2023.” Not “pressing” Tristan, legislated.

You said, << I know that the retirement age won't get to 70 for some time >> “some time” No Tristan, specifically 2035!

You said, << Other countries are heading to a higher retirement age also >>. “Heading” Tristan? Rubbish, those nations listed are not “heading”, they are already legislated!

See what happens when you inject narrative theory, rhetoric and platitudes? The “facts” mysteriously disappear and are replaced by moral/value propositions.

Your problem is that because we can identify rhetoric and platitudes, their traction is in decline.

As for the rest, lets just have a look at that.

<< the spin of the Murdoch press etc >>, << in the shoes of those who will be in that position in the future >>, <<divide and conquer>>, << real solidarity>>, << attacks on our social rights >>, << beat us through self-interest >>, << without intensifying exploitation >>, << withdrawal of basic social rights >> and all << while we are in the midst of plenty >>. Really?

Rhetoric and platitudes, do you have a book with all this stuff in it?

Abbott and the LNP are looking at the next election whilst you and the rest of the progressives play “ rhetorical” Ouija Board.

Abbott has intellect, you have rhetoric. Ooops!

Yoo Hoo Tristan

Allowing for Inflation, the GDP of Australia has doubled from 1965 (25.4 USD Billion) to 1371.8 USD billion in December, 2011. Growth has averaged 4 % per annum in the past decade alone, increasing GDP by 50 %.

Overall since 1965 the country is 2X richer, while the number on welfare is 5X.

The ageing population would be one explanation, but most baby boomers have yet to retire. Could the answer be that the prime reason for poverty in a wealthy country like Australia, with all of its attendant intractable social problems, is because we insist on importing it?

Aghans alone have employment rates of only 6% after five years of residence. Iranians are the next group most at risk from long unemployment and poverty, with 88% still unemployed after five years. In Europe, 80% of the Muslim population is on welfare benefits.

Angela Merkel summed it up nicely. The reason for European stagnation, she said, was because "Europe had 12% of the world's population, 26% of the world's manufacturing capability, and 56% of the world's welfare recipients."

In 1965, 3 % of the working age population in Australia was on welfare benefits of one sort or another. Now 16 % of adults rely on welfare. This is bad for them, bad for their children and is financially unsustainable – ie bad for taxpayers. Another take on this – in 1965 there were 22 taxpayers for every one person on welfare; now the number is 5.

DSP - every week 1,000 About 830,000 Australians currently receive the more join that tally. The cost of funding the DSP will rise from $15 billion each year to $18 billion by 2016-17.

Extrapolate forward and you see a vision of Greece, Spain, Cypress, and Ireland, with their own national insolvency problems. The populations of these countries and their elected representatives were acutely aware of their financial insolvency, decades ago. But like irresponsible creditors with a new credit card, they borrowed until they could borrow no more, and they wished away their problems until the bailiffs arrived.

D0 I want to work until I am 70, Tristan? You bloody bet I do. My last boss was Bill McPhee from JR Electrics at Ingleburn, he was 71, and the hardest worker of our crew. I was proud of him and proud to be his employee. If I can work, I will work.

It is hard to get a job when you are my age, but I just beat out a whole bunch of younger men for a job with Heyday Group. They hired 12 "casuals" to try us out and "let go" of 11 of them yesterday.(Friday 16th) But I am still working. Heyday keeps offering me a job because they know I am a productive and reliable worker. But they work 10 hours a day for six days a week (8 on Friday and 6 on Saturday) and it is just a bit much at my age, so I will probably refuse the job. And I am sick of paying too much tax to keep imported foreigners. Have you been in a social security office recently, Tristan? Of course not. Go in one and play "spot the Aussie."

I came from a Housing Commission area Tristan, and if you don't think that welfare fraud is endemic then you have lived a sheltered life. Certain ethnicities are very disproportionately represented in crime statistics and the long term unemployed. God knows how many of them are working as well. As you know, the ABS was forbidden to collate and analyse any statistics relating to ethnic crime because the government wanted to buy the ethnic vote.

There are 830,000 people on the DSP, which is more wounded than we had in two world wars. Maybe you were brought up in some leafy area perfumed with magnolia trees, but I came from the mean streets and I can sure smell a rat. Until you wake up that widespread welfare fraud, poor immigration policies and featherbedding in government jobs is killing your country, I won't take your holier than thou attitude seriously.

LEGO; You speak of Disability Pension costing what - $15 billion- but make no account for the fact that's in a $1.6 Trillion dollar economy. And you take pensioners to task for the cost to the economy; But when you speak of pensioners we're talking about a whole variety of people - People in between jobs, People who have worked all their lives, people who are studying, people who are genuinely disabled, sole parents who have been deserted and need help raising their kids... Pensions are a form of collective social insurance that all of us should want for ourselves - but also our friends, family and loved ones... We pay for it "because that could be us one day"; and also hopefully because we feel solidarity with our fellow human beings - as it could be them one day too...

You may well want to work until you're in your 70s. But many people - after working all their lives - would like to study; engage in art - music, literature, painting, sculpture; engage in active citizenship; look after their health and fitness; Perhaps travel after having put if off all their lives... For decades the male retirement age was 65. There are good arguments for a retirement age of 60...

The point is thus: "What is a good society?" - is it 'more consumption and more production until we drive ourselves into the ground'; Or is it maximising our human potential and maximising good health, long life, mutual love and respect, and happiness?

Good on you Lego, your the subservient type of person that Gina Rhinehart wants as an employee !!

Tristan, unless the Labor Party moves back to a policy of Govt owned banks, your party is finished and so is the Coalition.

Monetary sovereignty is the very definition of freedom and democracy. Mayer Armchel Rothschild," Give me control of a nation's currency and I care not who makes the laws." JD Rockefeller," Competition is a sin." These corporate elites do not want free markets, they want absolute control since they think they know best.

Without our Govt Banks which used to create some of our new money debt free as infrastructure, we will become another 3rd world country in the Southern Hemisphere. When even our inflationary money gets created as debt, growth goes backwards because it too gets created as debt.

You said we have a $1.6 trillion economy. We on average have 3% growth + 3% inflation, so the money supply grows by 6% pa. This means our money supply grows at $96 billion pa + interest and is expressed as debt by private OS and domestic banks.

Our RBA creates no new money. China is slowing and finding cheaper suppliers in Africa and South America. We have all been betrayed by both Labor and Liberal since they are both controlled by these mega corporations. Unless we sell off resources/energy cheaply, we will have no money for our economy to function. This is why Abbott has brought in austerity ie to service contrived debt by OS central banks.

Did you know Tristan the financial market of shares, derivatives and currency trades has a turnover of $135 trillion pa? Just a 0.01% tax will raise $135 billion in taxes and solve both our debt and infrastructure problems in 5 yrs.

The problem is that all the major parties including the Greens are too gutless and like to be cute little puppets snug and warm under a fascist banking global dictatorship.

Hi SPINDOC :) You are quite a spin doctor but here is the reality http://www.marketeconomics.com.au/1343-peter-costello-speaks-with-forked-tongue-2

Arjay

'Did you know Tristan the financial market of shares, derivatives and currency trades has a turnover of $135 trillion pa? Just a 0.01% tax will raise $135 billion in taxes and solve both our debt and infrastructure problems in 5 yrs.'

Can you explain that a bit better. Are you talking globally or just Australia?

And who gets taxed, specifically?

LEGO

‘In 1965, 3% of the working age population in Australia was on welfare benefits of one sort or another. Now 16% of adults rely on welfare.’

In 1965, the unemployment rate was 1% (based on those working in permanent full-time employment). Today, the ‘official’ unemployment rate (based on those working one hour per week or more) is 6%. A six-times increase!

However, the REAL unemployment rate (based on those who want to but can’t obtain work) is 13%. A 13-times increase!

However, your solution to this – as with the Coalition and their dutiful army of think-tanks – is to demonise the unemployed, cut back on unemployment benefits and make all forms of welfare much harder to access.

For reasons that are impossible to either calculate or fathom, this will somehow make the problems of unemployment and under-employment go away. Or, to put it another way ... if you render people desparate, homeless and starving, they will miraculously find employment in an ever-decreasing job market.

That’s not economic management – that’s a combination of sadism, self-righteousness and stupidity.

I think that some people would prefer Eugenics as an option to be considered rather than their pockets ! In reality you will never get rid of Unemployment,disabilities or the feebleness that comes with old age, some you can to a certain degree insure yourself against like retirement and unemployment but a disability perhaps you may be born with one. but at this moment in time they exist and they need to survive so what do you do ? Do you turn Australia into a country with beggars littering the streets ? or do you cull these people so you can ease the financial burden that you feel is upon you and draining your hip pocket unnecessarily ? Or do you do the Humane thing and treat them with some dignity which will cost you in dollars but reward you in having a clean conscience knowing that you are helping some of your fellow human beings and not just yourself ? So what is it to be ?

Tristan

'In the meantime progressive social movements need to coalesce and prepare for the fight of their lives.'

I know it's very early days, and I don't it's sunk in yet for most people (or maybe they're still in shock!), but do you know of anything being organised at this stage?

GetUp has something going on the Medicare tax, but that's about all I can find so far. We really need something akin to the Your Rights At Work campaign, only multiplied by a mass-anger factor of at least 10,000!

Killarney, I talking about just the turnover of the Australian financial markets. They have an annual turnover of $135 trillion. With computers millions of transactions happen in a hour.
http://www.cecaust.com.au/

Remember also that our banks have a derivative gambling exposure of $22 trillion. Much of this money is not backed by real productivity or assets. World GDP = $70trillion.World derivatives = $700 trillion. The US Fed has created $16 trillion in debt for the US Govt and another $16 trillion It is a disaster waiting to bring our whole system down to a new dark age.

Tristan, your whole article and your follow up's with OLO's regulars predicate your "superior" morality on the fact that you think money grows on trees. The most incredible aspect of the green/left point of view, is that they seem to hate the productive people from whom they extort the money to give to their electorate, who are the dependant, the unproductive, and the counter productive.

Your position appears to be, that Tony Abbott is just a big meanie who loves taking milk from needy babies even though the fridge is full of milk. Get it through your overly thick cranial cavity that this country is now $300 billion in dept to the money markets and that is going to blow out to $500 million before Abbott's cuts start to make a difference.

Twenty years ago, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Cyprus and Greece must have been full of home grown Tristan Ewins who told their gullible electorates that there was plenty of money around to give them for free. These particular Tristan Ewins studiously refused to admit that you can't spend money forever buying votes. Could you please give me your addresss so that I can send you a copy of "The Golden Goose?"

You are probably going to win this one, Tristan. Because if there is something that a compulsive spender with a new credit card wants to hear, is that the credit is endless, so shop till you drop. Abbott will probably get chucked out by the electorate because they want to believe your message that there is plenty in the kitty and nothing to worry about.

I just hope that I am dead before the bill comes in.

I hear that the Greeks are now clamouring around the Australian embassy in Athens looking for visas. Reality bit hard in Greece and the party is over, but your message that the party is still going on in Australia has gotten through to the Greeks. And the Spanish. And the Muslims. And everybody else.

LEGO; the paper money does grow on trees, it is the debt money that banks create from nothing that is the real big danger to us all. This money is not going into the real economy but blows up the share market bubble and our Govts are too scared to tax it.

Our super elite have a gambling monopoly game, making money on money and not making money backed by real productivity. How can the USA have any growth with rising unemployment, falling production and 50 million on food stamps?

The only thing that grows in our economy is the share market, house prices and thus the debt. Without Govt Banks ,we are stuffed.

You make some very interesting observations and points with regard to banks Ajay! And probably points to many of the high powered reasons, there's so much entirely unwarranted resistance to either a transaction tax or an expenditure tax; and, the most compelling reason we should have a new bank, a peoples' bank!
Not only banks create huge plucked from thin air turnover, but traders making very high frequency deals on the stock markets of the world; which badly skews the markets, and indeed, good places for ordinary mums and dads, and super funds to stay away from.
We should have laws that outlaw this practice and short selling!
Both of which steal money from the honest investor!
Notice I've used the singular rather than the plural, given the honest investor is an endangered species!
All the country really needs is an honest government populated with honest politicians, ready willing and eager to put the people and the national interest first, rather than themselves, and this or that vested interest!
And wouldn't that make a pleasant change, along with an empty ICAC, with no work to do!
Rhrosty.

LEGO, I do not 'hate' anyone. But I believe a balance needs to be struck - between reward and incentive for effort; just redistribution to correct market forces in labour; provision for the needs of the most post and vulnerable.

I also believe a balance needs to be struck between peoples free determination of their needs structures through private consumption; And the more-efficient and egalitarian determination of means structures through collective consumption.

That is hardly 'fully fledged state socialism'. Though some don't seem to be able to distinguish between that and what I would call a 'democratic mixed economy'.

Up yours trissy boy.

I'm 51 semi retired and live off the proceeds of businesses I've built.

I've started to invent, write and become involved in the arts.

I've always paid people their worth. I've paid more tax than you and most others.

I also for years worked 7 days a week and more hours per day than most of your feeble mates work in a week.

Don't think you have a right to lecture me with your sharing crap.

All you want is to take from me the benefits I have worked bloody hard to earn and give them to a bunch of no hopers who don't work and are currently getting exactly what they deserve.

Your stupidity says I don't deserve all I have earned and that I should share it with them simply because they haven't done as I have done.

Go to hell and hobnob with your socialist mates Hitler Stalin and Mao.

Egalitarianism is one of my basic values and an Australian tradition.

It has noting in common with your socialist tripe.

Like liberalism, why are you trying to steal it.

That trissy boy is just another grubby tactic of you stupid socialists.

So I called it right Tristan - you ARE a totalitarian.

That's a big reveal. You can't justify your greed for power and other people's money in a rational world, you need a fictional 'political economy' where bureaucrats and Party apparatchiki decide whether my family eat, get medical treatment, get admitted to university. And if I dont like that, the Power of the State will compel me to undergo psychiatric examination.

Australia's system of political correctness can't distinguish stupid fantasies underlying the guff progressives 'produce'.

People like you and your amoral politicians Rudd and Gillard will destroy our national economy, sell their own votes, and buy those of the poor with the people's taxes, while you posture and preen as self-evidently morally superior people.

May 'progressives' die ashamed, knowing their children impoverished to pay those astonishing debts their parents spent on a moment of moral superiority.

Yes Tristan, and many of those referred to, also have a difficulty in distinguishing between Buddhism and Communism and virtually all isms? Albeit, not necessarily, rationalism, activism or nudism?
One of the most recent discoveries, by marine biologists, is that some tropical reefs are there, because the oil seepage coming up from the ocean floor, provides nutrients and an extremely favorable environment!
Logical, given some algae survive by exclusively predating on more toxic varieties! And all oil was originally, algae!
And all coral has an equally symbiotic interdependence, with possibly cannibalistic algae!
Now I'm not saying that the whole Barrier Reef has this symbiotic interdependence, just say, half of it?
And that would support some of the rationalism coming from varied oil industry experts, who are on the public record as saying, to our immediate north we could have a larger hydrocarbon resources than all the known reserves of the entire Middle East!
We are a bit like the ragged arsed beggar, handcuffed to steel railing, and begging every foreigner that passes for some, (please Sir) borrowed foreign capital.
When one of the more wealthy, inquires, but you have a huge treasure chest, just over there, with your name on it!
Why are you asking for help?
Because I can't quite reach it, replies the handcuffed one.
Who handcuffed you?, inquires the wealthy stranger.
I did, you reply, with a mantra that goes, the government has no business in business!
Well what you put on you can just take off, replies the wealthy stranger, and use the the millions of trillions that is already yours, to change your seemingly impoverished circumstances!

We have plenty of money, (oil and gas) in a reserve big enough to be seen from the moon!?
All we need is permission from the owners to help ourselves to as much as we could possibly need, perhaps for a century or more!
Hang on, we are the owners!
Rhrosty.

ChrisPer cannot tell the difference between radical social democracy and totalitarianism. Apparently progressive tax and welfare mark one out as a totalitarian. I thought perhaps that had more to do with Stalin and Hitler killing tens of millions, Hitler committing genocide; throwing dissidents into concentration camps or off to Siberia. To throw all socialists in with Stalin does a disservice to the socialists who fought Stalin - and who were often imprisoned, executed, tortured, thrown in concentration camps.

I identify with the stand taken by left social democrats against Stalin, and indeed Leninism. Lenin specifically was similar to 'Left Jacobinism'; He's a bit like a Communist Robespierre. But Stalin took Terror to a whole new level. (so did Hitler) Read about Kautsky, Julius Martov, Otto Bauer and the Austro-Marxists, Rosa Luxemburg - and then get back to me with your accusations of 'Totalitarianism'.

Notice how Tristan and his Labor Party evade issues like Govt banks since they were the ones who initiated the sell off of our Govt Banks.Labor were bought out a long time ago by Corporate interests.

From 2008 with their stimulus money,prime OS contractors took the money which they borrowed as debt on our behalf back OS. How can a school Tuckshop reno of 3x3m be worth $600,000 and the movement of a school portable worth $800,000.Yoiu should be able to move a school portable for under $100,000.We were taken to the cleaners by Labor. The are all rotten to the core.

Tristan is looking like just another career politician who could not give a stuff about this country.

Labor won't even talk about a small turnover tax on our $135 trillion share/currency market. Labor and Liberal are gutless wonders who pretend to represent the people.

I did a job for a Prof of Taxation some yrs ago. He said they have intentionally made the tax law complicated so it can be rorted by an elite few. Nobody can understand it.

We do not need the GST. We need a small turnover tax that taxes everyone. If we had Govt banks there would be no Govt debt.

I am not a career politician. And for the record I support establishing another national public savings bank along the lines of the old CBA.

Tristan,

The problem is that radical social "democracy" has been tried and has failed spectacularly every time, as it did in the UK, and it needed someone like Thatcher to rescue the economy. The voters have wised up, and the only way to get this state is to abandon all pretense of democracy.

Tristan, if you support Govt banking why not write and article on OLO high lighting Labor's new policy to do so? Labor won't do it because the Murdoch press will go ballistic.

Shadow Minister, Margaret Thatcher was just another puppet of big corporate interests.

Some people are funny they use moral virtues but it comes straight from their hip pockets ! there is nothing moralistic about denying someone a means to survive in an affluent country like Australia ! It is Pathetic to even try to do so, so stop the pretense and air you narcissistic views openly please !

To Killarney.

This "massive increase" in unemployment began with the election of the Whitlam Labor government in 1973. Every teenager in my housing commission area (except me) went on the dole and went surfing every day. The Soviet government actually sent a TV news team to Nimbin NSW, to show their incredulous Soviet audiences the how decadent Australia had become. The Australian government paid our youth not to train or to work. The mathematics are simple. You got more on the dole than you got working as an apprentice. To mitigate this, the Whitlam government increased apprentice wages 250% make it economic to get a job and also to buy the "youth vote", despite employers screaming that this would be uneconomic. With employers cutting back significantly on apprentice hiring's, Labor did what every socialist government does when confronted by the consequences of their economic meddling. It created government departments funded by taxpayers to hire apprentices, subsidise their wages, then hire them out to industry. The result is that there are a lot less apprentices today, even though the ones lucky enough to get into the system are well paid.

Labor's next move was to destroy the White Australia Policy that once protected Australian workers from the importation of coolies who would work a lot cheaper than they do. Every petrol station in Australia is now manned by Indians who are contracted in India to work for (what for us) are low wages but which for them are high wages. Incidents at building sites have revealed that the foreign companies importing foreign workers do not bother with trifles like workers compensation, holiday pay, super, or award wages

Labor (and Liberal) figured out that they could make themselves popular by screwing employers to fund social projects. Unfunded pension obligations? Make the employers pay the workers super. Unemployment of building workers? Make building companies create an unemployment fund called MERT. Toss in plenty of goodies the employers have to pay for, like leave loadings, long service leave, and RDO's and you wonder why Australia's major manufacturing is closing down and heading overseas?

LEGO, Unemployment has risen because of the corporate take over of Australia. Tariffs reduced, jobs sent to China and Govt Banks sold off so our inflationary money + money for growth get expressed as debt. Abbott even wants to sell off the mint so even our coins get created as debt.

There are will never be enough jobs because too much money leaves the country to service debt. This country is always starved of money but our bankers always create more than enough for their derivative scams. How can a phoney economy of derivatives be 10 times the real productive one?

... The "poor white trash of Asia" are screaming loud...!

re: Apprentices having no incentive to work because of welfare payments; You would think surely the answer would be to pay apprentices much more! Because welfare payments on their own are miniscule! (and so is pay for apprentices)

Tristan Tristan, where do you get your thinking.

A first year apprentice, in most organisations, is totally useless. The employer is paying them to turn up, & to go to TAFE.

Not only do they do nothing useful to earn their keep, they actually take some supervision from a useful employee, if only to keep them out of harms way. Thus not only do they do nothing useful, but cost some productivity of useful workers.

The pink bats socialist scheme was a perfect example of half trained people put to work, unsupervised.

Companies & tradesmen employ apprentices out of the goodness of their heart, & in the realization that they need to help produce the next generation of tradesmen.

However there comes a limit to what they are prepared to spend doing this. Employing apprentices has become far too expensive for many, hence the reduction in places.

Yours is a great answer to a cost problem, make it more expensive. God help us.

Has been; Re: trades-people supporting apprentices - IN which case the subsidies need to come from Government... Which I understand Abbott is withdrawing in any case.

Trissy boy there you go again.
The money doesn't come from government.
It comes from taxpsyers like me who generate the wealth in this country.

You should try doing something productive where you make your own money instead of sucking it from the taxpayers teat. You doon see how parasitic you snd your ideas are.

Apprentices wanting to make ends meet will likely pay taxes themselves one day. Like other students they need to make ends meet in the interim. Supporting them during the interim helps ensure they complete their apprenticeship successfully without having to worry about not enough money for food on the table, a roof over their head, and a basic quality of life.

Where' that Labor policy on Govt Banks Tristan ?

Absolutely wrong, Tristan Ewins.

The deal used to work like this. First year apprentices are not worth hiring unless they are cheap. It is not until they reach third year that you can expect any return from (most of ) them. The major employers of apprentices used to be the very small businesses where they were usually tossed in at the deep end and expected to learn quickly.

It was very easy for a young teenager to get an apprenticeship under those conditions. Almost anyone could apply and be accepted. Once you got the job, it was up to you to perform to keep it. I myself was a housing commission kid from a single parent family, and an over active under achiever at school. Today, I would not even be accepted as an apprentice because my grades were too low. I thank fortune for the fact that I lived during a time when it was easy to get a job. I then came (for the first time in my life) under the influence of older men, good tradesmen who became my role models.

Apprentices today are smarter, but their training is disjointed and they are mainly being hired out to very large companies where their training is a matter of luck. There is a world of difference between the attitudes of tradesmen working for big companies and those working for small ones, where if you don't earn your keep, you are shown the door very quickly.

I have had second year apprentices come to work in flashy new cars who simply won't buy any tools. I could tell you a lot of tales about that. Naturally, the employers are concerned that apprentices today won't buy tools, so the government has proposed a new "solution." They are offering to buy apprentices tools with taxpayer money. And you wonder why our country is broke? The little buggers are just too disinterested in their jobs and they spend their money on cars and girls. Their job is the last thing they worry about. And you wonder what is wrong with Australian productivity?

Tristan,

You want everyone to be paid more, but as most from the left have no idea who is going to pay for it.

Apprentices are not paid much, but are spending time in Tafe and getting hands on experience in the profession they want to pursue, as well as getting some income from about 50% in first year when they have no skills to full wages after a year. Compared to Uni students earning nothing, they are doing well.

Arjay - I support restoring an equivalent of the Commonwealth Bank. But the ALP Right - and some 'pragmatic' (and even Ideological) elements on the Left - would oppose it. Right now we have a better crack at national age care insurance funded by progressive tax reform; restore age of retirement 65; get back in and get Gonski and NDIS done... I will argue for a government owned bank in the future - I think its very important. But I doubt I'd get it past the pragmatists at this stage.

What are you worried about, Tristan? Abbot's policies aren't going anywhere because the Senate is owned by Labor and the Greens. Labor will do nothing to help Abbot balance the budget and the Greens have an ideological aversion to productive industry that generates revenue.

Look ma-a-a-a-ate. You are going to win this one. Too many people want to believe that the government's coffers are bottomless and that the government will always give them money. Just like Greece, Spain, Cyprus, Portugal and Ireland, the electorate will vote for anybody who says that there is nothing to worry about. It is going to be a short term victory for you.

But in the long term, our country is going to go broke just like every other country in the world which is unable to reign in it's welfare spending. The facts are stark and unmistakable. In 1965, 3% of the population as on welfare, and today after an unprecedented surge in prosperity, 16% are on welfare. And that is before the baby boomers begin to retire. The situation is unsustainable. And you don't have to be a Mensa from the local Audubon society to smell a rat.

Take my niece (everybody else has). After marrying her unemployable husband who was nearly voted "unmarried father of the year" in his own country town, she had four kids to him. Her husband then ran off with the girl next door who was half his age, to make more babies that the taxpayer would keep. My niece then shacked up with one of his sons (from a prior dalliance) who was a drug addict, a burglar, and who had been almost totally banned from driving cars for life. She then had two kids to her husband's son. And yes, they are all on the dole.

You can laugh, but you are paying for it. And you want to screw the productive to become the noble protector of the poor? Cuckoo. Cuckoo. You must have led a sheltered life.