Foxy "It really doesn't matter what you may think."

Yes, it does, because I'm a citizen and I vote.

"These include Judeo-Christian ethics, A british political heritage and the spirit of European Enlightenment. Distinct Irish and non-conformist attitudes and sentiments have also been important."

That doesn't sound like "people from all over the world."
That sounds like European people, like Western civilisation.

1 or 2% of non-White people on the First Fleet does not constitute "tremendous diversity".
The "tremendousness" only appeared in the last few decades, not during our formative 1700s-early 1900s development.

If any diversity existed in the early years, it was only because of the "evil" colonisation, rampant among European empires at the time.
Whites/Europeans ruled almost the entire world.

Did those "diverse" people live as they did in their original homelands or were they expected to "conform" to a common social system?

The varied (but all White) Europeans who came here would have retained in their personal life aspects of their original culture, but their *children*, born here, were not expected to identity and live as Italians or Dutch or Irish.

They were expected to be "Australians".

"there is no single national identity"

But there is a dominant ethnic group, White Australians (once upon a time, no adjective was necessary. "Australians" were understood, here and abroad, to be White.)

Once, 90% of the population were native-born White, with the other 10% mostly White as well.

The only reason Aborigines (the only significant exception) were included as "Australians" is that they were already here.

If they had been foreigners, from Asia or Africa, they would never have been let in.

Foxy,
How can you say we are multicultural when there is not one other culture that we accept in its entirety. We simply accept bits of other cultures that fit into ours. There are many alien parts of other cultures that we do not accept.

Yes we have been multiracial since the first fleet but the powers that be then insisted on British law and social standards.

Since then we have developed our own culture that is based mainly on the Westminster system. Our Governance, Justice, military, education, local government, health, police and emergency services are all based on Westminster and are the foundations of our society.

We do not make special laws to suit other cultures, although we turn a blind eye to some activities.

What other alien cultural activities do you think we should embrace to enhance our diversity. Or do you look forward to say polygamy, forced marriage, underage marriage and FGM becoming acceptable in our society.

Hi Foxy

It is great we agree on so much.

This is your view:

'The Bible includes the Jewish Scriptures of the
...'

This is mine:

Our Bible does include extracts from the ancient Hebrew book. It wasn't referred to as a bible until recently. The ancient Hebrew Scriptures are more extensive than what's in the Bible's Old Testament. Much of confronting stuff is omitted.

The content of ourBible was decided by the Roman Emperor Constintine's Council of Nicaea in about 300 AD.

That meeting was attempted to unite all the different strands of Christianity. It resulted in the Nicaean Creed and the Christian Bible.

It included some extracts from the Hebrews. That intention was for homily not belief.

My knowledge wasn't sourced from goggle. I am wary of that source however I suggest it for you as a secondary source.

The Christian Bible's focus is the new testament as are the liturgies and rites of the Christian Churches. They preach the new testament as a central and only belief. The old testament is completely ignored in these.

The reason it is ignored is complex. As a basic explanation this is because Christ rejected the Hebrew Book and it's teachings. That was why he was crucified.

Christ preached forgiveness, doing unto others, turning the other cheek and non-judgementalism. He argued these with the Hebrew scholars and priests. His thoughts were demonstrated in Apostles epistles.

Christ didn't believe in ownership of women and children or other ideas of the traditional Hebrew marriage, Hebrew vengefulness (Cast the first stone)or a vengeful god. Christ had no preaching on morality in relationships or sexuality. He defended a prostitute.

Now tell me which of the above ideas most reflect our traditions? Christ's or those of the Ancient Hebrews? And please note there has been no enlightenment nor reformation in Judaism.

I think we'd both agree our Western legal system and societal mores fundamentally follow the thrust of Christ and his New Testament rather than the thrust and beliefs and practises of the ancient Hebrew's and their book.

Foxy
I agree. Australia is and always has been diverse, and is a much more interesting place for it. I support multiculturalism (with the condition that it’s a broad term and some of the things described as “multiculturalism” I don’t support).

But I’m a nerd, and can’t ignore bad stats even in support of an argument I broadly agree with.

Imajulianutter
Christian scripture does not include “extracts” from Jewish scripture, it contains all of the Tanakh (but not the Talmud and Mishna). The Tanakh was probably formalised around the first century, before the canonical Christian scriptures were formalised, but there was broad agreement on the Christian scriptures by the middle of the third century, well before Nicaea.

You say:
“The Christian Bible's focus is the new testament as are the liturgies and rites of the Christian Churches. They preach the new testament as a central and only belief. The old testament is completely ignored in these.”

I’m not sure which Christian tradition you follow, but it is radically unorthodox. Denial of the Old Testament’s validity as scripture was condemned as heresy as early as the second century (Marcionism). Churches that follow the lectionary routinely use two Old Testament readings each Sunday. Christ did not “reject the Hebrew book”, and you’ll find extensive use of Hebrew scripture in the Gospel, including by Jesus himself (for example, in the temptation he counters Satan’s argument by quoting Deuteronomy).

You are right that “Christ preached forgiveness, doing unto others, turning the other cheek and non-judgementalism.” All of this he derives from the OT. Certainly he disputed fiercely with the Jewish authorities about which elements of scripture to prioritise and how to interpret them. But these were arguments within Judaism, not against it.

One of the very important strands of Judaism which has influenced Christianity and is relevant to this debate is its repeated exhortation to respect and care for aliens living in the Jewish community (e.g. Ex 22:21, 23:9, Lev. 19:34, Deut. 24:17 Jer. 7:6-7). This is one strand of the Judeo-Christian tradition of great relevance to the debate on multiculturalism.

Rhian

Coveting our neighbours wife is theft (why can't one covet thy neighbours husband? ) and like an eye for an eye are basic in the Hebrew law and Hebrew traditions. That is totally at odds with Western law and christian raditions.

Catholic. Mass has at it's centre the celebration of the Eucharist. The only formal and acknowleged litirgy is the Gospel readings. Any other oral presentations are mere homilies and never really stressed. Any understanding of western christianity must acknowledge that. We as westerners through the church and especially Augustine and Aquinas developed from the intrepertation of Christian Gospels not the hebrew scriptures.

Multiculturalism was a social engineering experiment introduced by the Whitlam government in the 1970s. It was continued on by the Fraser government and every government since.

It promotes foreign cultures. A philosophy which rates original culture ahead of national loyalty.

A philosophy which fosters separate development. Seeks a federation of ethnic cultures, not one cohesive community working toward a unified nation.

Supporters of the ideology point to the nicer things like children in colourful costumes, beer festivals, dragon parades and a choice of eating places. This ignores the many alien aspects of various cultures such as violence between ethnic groups, encouraged by the retention of old cultures and retained hatreds. Examples of this can be seen in the violence brought on by the Syrian situation and violence by gangs of Africans. Alien cultural aspects like polygamy, underage marriage and forced marriage. We even have had examples of honour killing.

Still advocates of MC gloss over these events and believe it a small price to pay for increased diversity. They disregard the advantages of a cohesive community. They want even more diversity with allowance of alien cultures. There have been calls for Sharia law introduction.

The sooner multiculturalism is officially done away with and integration promoted, the better off we will all be