Australia has been very accepting of other cultures. There is no discrimination on the basis of ethnicity/race/culture here on the governmental level. Migration is judged on skills, Humanitarian grounds, and family reunion grounds. Any discrimination comes from the people. And this discrimination is an essential requirements for any stable society. Some cultures are simply incompatible. There has to be some form of shared values for a culture to be stable. Discrimination serves a purpose.

If you're really concerned about humiliation on the basis of race, perhaps some consistency can be applied. Australians/British/Europeans are utterly denigrated in Humanities and Social Sciences departments, particularly in the discipline of history. Australian/British/European history is taught as one long journey of "exploitation" and "oppression". Imagine an historical analysis of Aboriginal history taught as one long journey of violence toward each other. It would be academic suicide. Until "progressives" maintain consistency here they will not get my support.

Wah, wah, wah.

Well you only have yourselves to blame.
Too much, too many, too soon.
And you're surprised there's a backlash.

For almost 200 years there was almost nothing but British immigration (Irish included as they were part of UK during our early development).

Then suddenly the doors are open to anything and everything all at once, in huge numbers.

If you didn't want a backlash, you should have been more moderate, *slowly* expanding the range, over hundreds of years.
You didn't, too bad.
Now we're sick to death of it.

Dear Shocker,

Did you know that when the First Fleet arrived it
brought 1000 convicts. We were told in our history
books that it brought 1000 English convicts.
It didn't. It brought 1000 conivcts but probably
they came from a dozen different countries. As someone
put it so delightfully, "English jails were no
respecters of nationality." The first Italian arrived
pn January 26, 1788 - Giuseppe Tuso. There were people
from South Africa, there were people from Ceylon, from
India, from Spain, from Portugal, from Hungary.
So when people ask, "Do you believe Australia should
become a multi-cultural society?" It really doesn't
matter what you may think. The fact remains what it is,
which is a country of tremendous diversity.

The values and principles that we share in this country
were moulded and modernised through waves of settlement
by people from all over the world. These values and
principles reflect the strong influences on Australia's
history and culture. These include Judeo-Christian ethics,
A british political heritage and the spirit of European
Enlightenment. Distinct Irish and non-conformist
attitudes and sentiments have also been important.

Our values and principles should not be seen as a quest
for conformity or a common set of beliefs. On the contrary,
respect for the free-thinking individual and the right to be
different are foundations of Australian democracy.

What is needed is to help new citizens understand the core
values that have helped to create a society that is
stable yet dynamic, cohesive yet diverse. A society based
on the rule of law and maintained as an orderly and free
society.

The nature of being
Australian is to be part of this diversity. And the wide
and varied gathering of "identities" is in keeping with
the sense of potential and openess so many people enjoyed
on coming here. Most feel privileged not only to have been
able to make a home here but also to have found their own
sense of belonging.

Probably what it has always meant.

A huge waste of money on divisive policies, featherbedding for some very lazy people, & a great gravy train ticket for too many ethnics.

Next question.

Jalinder,
I trust it means that finally we will be rid of the flawed multicultural ideology that has prevailed for far too long.

During the later part of the Howard government the term multiculturalism was dropped and it was just going to die a natural death. PM Gillard floated MC a couple of times but it did not gain public support as most people recognized the flaws and could see it divided the community. Consequently the Gillard government did not pursue the matter.

Over the years, we have wasted millions on grants related to MC and it only served to divide us into a society of tribes. 'Unity in Diversity' never did become a reality. supporters of MC only saw the nice things and ignored the baggage that came with it.

I suggest that the term multiculturalism is a misnomer as we are multi-racial but not multicultural. We still retain and need the backing of our westminister foundations for a cohesive society. We only accept some parts of some cultures.

Oh, you said,"In the major cities: Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, over 80% of the resident population are born overseas". I believe you are incorrect and that you should do your sums again.

The multicultural nature of Australian society means
that there is no single national identity but a
gathering of many cultures, and this is one of the
most unique and rewarding aspects of living in
Australia. The nature of being Australian today is to
be part of this diversity.

Foxy

I agree with 95% of what you have written. It is a very accurate assessment of the Australia I know.

However we do not have a Judea Christian heritage. We Christians dumped and accepted Christ's remodelling of the archaic and mysognist Judeaism.

Key of those are the golden rule and forgiveness, which are fundamentals in our legal system and social mores.

We tend to do unto others, turn the other cheek and forgive people. That best sums up the basis of our tolerance.

'Harmony Day'? Why should we have a 'Harmony Day' in Australia while Japan is allowed to have 'Japanese Only' Football matches?

"If we want to live in a civil society, we must show respect and tolerance of ‘others’ who are not from the dominant culture [Anglo-Australian]."

(1) Of course the 'others' should show respect and tolerance for the dominant culture, particularly its liberal democratic principles and commit themselves to reducing racism and xenophobia within the own communities. Otherwise our multicultural society will resemble those of our Asian neighbours with periodic outbreaks of 'communal' violence.

(2) Liberal democracies are intrinsically multicultural, so the government has no business involving itself in institutionalised multiculturalism with its associated bureaucracies and vested interests.

Dear Imajulianutter,

The Bible includes the Jewish Scriptures of the
Old Testament so the moral foundations laid
down in Judaism are upheld in Christianity.
The early uses of the term Judeo-Christian ethic
referred to the Jewish roots and identity of the
early Christian Church, but it wasn't used to speak of a
common set of morals until much later.

Google the ethic for yourself - its meaning is quite
interesting.

foxy
I agree, all of Christ's teaching was based on the Hebrew Scriptures. I also agree with your earlier posts - diversity and tolerance are Australian characteristics, and ones to cherish.

The artice got this wrong, however:
"In the major cities: Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, over 80% of the resident population are born overseas"

This is obviously incorrect. About 80% of migrants live in the major cities, but that doesn't mean 80% of people living in major cities are migrants.

Dear Rhian,

I'm not sure of the percentages however immigration has
always been an important element in Australia's
nation building. We have integrated millions of
people with diverse backgrounds from over 200
countries and we have drawn from that diversity to build
a successful nation. Mirgrants have chosen to come to
Australia and to share a common set of values. They
have added to the rich tapestry of Australian life - in
the words of Australia's "Father of Federation," Sir
Henry Parkes, we have become "One people, with one
destiny!"

Foxy "It really doesn't matter what you may think."

Yes, it does, because I'm a citizen and I vote.

"These include Judeo-Christian ethics, A british political heritage and the spirit of European Enlightenment. Distinct Irish and non-conformist attitudes and sentiments have also been important."

That doesn't sound like "people from all over the world."
That sounds like European people, like Western civilisation.

1 or 2% of non-White people on the First Fleet does not constitute "tremendous diversity".
The "tremendousness" only appeared in the last few decades, not during our formative 1700s-early 1900s development.

If any diversity existed in the early years, it was only because of the "evil" colonisation, rampant among European empires at the time.
Whites/Europeans ruled almost the entire world.

Did those "diverse" people live as they did in their original homelands or were they expected to "conform" to a common social system?

The varied (but all White) Europeans who came here would have retained in their personal life aspects of their original culture, but their *children*, born here, were not expected to identity and live as Italians or Dutch or Irish.

They were expected to be "Australians".

"there is no single national identity"

But there is a dominant ethnic group, White Australians (once upon a time, no adjective was necessary. "Australians" were understood, here and abroad, to be White.)

Once, 90% of the population were native-born White, with the other 10% mostly White as well.

The only reason Aborigines (the only significant exception) were included as "Australians" is that they were already here.

If they had been foreigners, from Asia or Africa, they would never have been let in.

Foxy,
How can you say we are multicultural when there is not one other culture that we accept in its entirety. We simply accept bits of other cultures that fit into ours. There are many alien parts of other cultures that we do not accept.

Yes we have been multiracial since the first fleet but the powers that be then insisted on British law and social standards.

Since then we have developed our own culture that is based mainly on the Westminster system. Our Governance, Justice, military, education, local government, health, police and emergency services are all based on Westminster and are the foundations of our society.

We do not make special laws to suit other cultures, although we turn a blind eye to some activities.

What other alien cultural activities do you think we should embrace to enhance our diversity. Or do you look forward to say polygamy, forced marriage, underage marriage and FGM becoming acceptable in our society.

Hi Foxy

It is great we agree on so much.

This is your view:

'The Bible includes the Jewish Scriptures of the
...'

This is mine:

Our Bible does include extracts from the ancient Hebrew book. It wasn't referred to as a bible until recently. The ancient Hebrew Scriptures are more extensive than what's in the Bible's Old Testament. Much of confronting stuff is omitted.

The content of ourBible was decided by the Roman Emperor Constintine's Council of Nicaea in about 300 AD.

That meeting was attempted to unite all the different strands of Christianity. It resulted in the Nicaean Creed and the Christian Bible.

It included some extracts from the Hebrews. That intention was for homily not belief.

My knowledge wasn't sourced from goggle. I am wary of that source however I suggest it for you as a secondary source.

The Christian Bible's focus is the new testament as are the liturgies and rites of the Christian Churches. They preach the new testament as a central and only belief. The old testament is completely ignored in these.

The reason it is ignored is complex. As a basic explanation this is because Christ rejected the Hebrew Book and it's teachings. That was why he was crucified.

Christ preached forgiveness, doing unto others, turning the other cheek and non-judgementalism. He argued these with the Hebrew scholars and priests. His thoughts were demonstrated in Apostles epistles.

Christ didn't believe in ownership of women and children or other ideas of the traditional Hebrew marriage, Hebrew vengefulness (Cast the first stone)or a vengeful god. Christ had no preaching on morality in relationships or sexuality. He defended a prostitute.

Now tell me which of the above ideas most reflect our traditions? Christ's or those of the Ancient Hebrews? And please note there has been no enlightenment nor reformation in Judaism.

I think we'd both agree our Western legal system and societal mores fundamentally follow the thrust of Christ and his New Testament rather than the thrust and beliefs and practises of the ancient Hebrew's and their book.

Foxy
I agree. Australia is and always has been diverse, and is a much more interesting place for it. I support multiculturalism (with the condition that it’s a broad term and some of the things described as “multiculturalism” I don’t support).

But I’m a nerd, and can’t ignore bad stats even in support of an argument I broadly agree with.

Imajulianutter
Christian scripture does not include “extracts” from Jewish scripture, it contains all of the Tanakh (but not the Talmud and Mishna). The Tanakh was probably formalised around the first century, before the canonical Christian scriptures were formalised, but there was broad agreement on the Christian scriptures by the middle of the third century, well before Nicaea.

You say:
“The Christian Bible's focus is the new testament as are the liturgies and rites of the Christian Churches. They preach the new testament as a central and only belief. The old testament is completely ignored in these.”

I’m not sure which Christian tradition you follow, but it is radically unorthodox. Denial of the Old Testament’s validity as scripture was condemned as heresy as early as the second century (Marcionism). Churches that follow the lectionary routinely use two Old Testament readings each Sunday. Christ did not “reject the Hebrew book”, and you’ll find extensive use of Hebrew scripture in the Gospel, including by Jesus himself (for example, in the temptation he counters Satan’s argument by quoting Deuteronomy).

You are right that “Christ preached forgiveness, doing unto others, turning the other cheek and non-judgementalism.” All of this he derives from the OT. Certainly he disputed fiercely with the Jewish authorities about which elements of scripture to prioritise and how to interpret them. But these were arguments within Judaism, not against it.

One of the very important strands of Judaism which has influenced Christianity and is relevant to this debate is its repeated exhortation to respect and care for aliens living in the Jewish community (e.g. Ex 22:21, 23:9, Lev. 19:34, Deut. 24:17 Jer. 7:6-7). This is one strand of the Judeo-Christian tradition of great relevance to the debate on multiculturalism.

Rhian

Coveting our neighbours wife is theft (why can't one covet thy neighbours husband? ) and like an eye for an eye are basic in the Hebrew law and Hebrew traditions. That is totally at odds with Western law and christian raditions.

Catholic. Mass has at it's centre the celebration of the Eucharist. The only formal and acknowleged litirgy is the Gospel readings. Any other oral presentations are mere homilies and never really stressed. Any understanding of western christianity must acknowledge that. We as westerners through the church and especially Augustine and Aquinas developed from the intrepertation of Christian Gospels not the hebrew scriptures.

Multiculturalism was a social engineering experiment introduced by the Whitlam government in the 1970s. It was continued on by the Fraser government and every government since.

It promotes foreign cultures. A philosophy which rates original culture ahead of national loyalty.

A philosophy which fosters separate development. Seeks a federation of ethnic cultures, not one cohesive community working toward a unified nation.

Supporters of the ideology point to the nicer things like children in colourful costumes, beer festivals, dragon parades and a choice of eating places. This ignores the many alien aspects of various cultures such as violence between ethnic groups, encouraged by the retention of old cultures and retained hatreds. Examples of this can be seen in the violence brought on by the Syrian situation and violence by gangs of Africans. Alien cultural aspects like polygamy, underage marriage and forced marriage. We even have had examples of honour killing.

Still advocates of MC gloss over these events and believe it a small price to pay for increased diversity. They disregard the advantages of a cohesive community. They want even more diversity with allowance of alien cultures. There have been calls for Sharia law introduction.

The sooner multiculturalism is officially done away with and integration promoted, the better off we will all be

Banjo, I agree with you 100%. European leaders have (at last) heeded the advice of their consituents and have finally decided that 'multiculturalism does not work'. How far down the path of social disintegration do we have to go before our leaders wake up to the same reality and why, oh why, were the Australian public never asked if they wanted this social experiment in the first place? Multiculturalism has no logic or reason behind it, and is presented by its adherents as a quasi-religious cult: 'Credo quia absurdum; I believe in it because it is absurd.' We have every right to demand integration and cohesion now, and an immigration policy that complements these goals, not one that destroys them.

Banjo, I always saw multiculturalism as a way to stick some ethnic leaders snouts into the trough, to buy their recommendation/instruction to vote Labor. Remember that Ai Grassby, another of the ALPs members who was a bit of a crim, getting some rip off out of it. How many unpronounceable names head some multicultural body or another, established by Labor.

Since then even Howard did not have the guts to dice it, too many votes at stake, even if only a few ever vote other than left.

You have to give it to labor. Hopeless managers but the masters of tricks & con jobs. If there is a scam anywhere, [like multiculturalism], you can bet it's down to them.

Hasbeen,
I remember Al Grassby well, he introduced the MC ideology from Canada and sold it to Whitlam. I put a lot of time, effort and money into getting Fraser in and was he was the worst. I will never know why he went against advice and let all those Lebs in. We have paid dearly for these blunders, both monetary and socially.

But there is hope, Howard dropped use of the MC word and was leaving it to die. Rudd didn't push it, Gillard found it was not popular and left it alone. Now I think we have an opportunity to officially disband it all together.

It has taken the polys 40 years to wake up and I despair at the waste of money over the years.

Morrison gets my vote for doing a good job thus far and let us hope he gets his way and abolishes multiculturalism. Forced social engineering does not work and we need to be more immigrant selective.

The irony of "multiculturalism" is that it's only "multi" when viewed from space.

If you look at *each* culture/people, there's little "diversity" at all.
They're all conformist, with their own standards and norms, that all "their" people are expected to follow.

Do these various people want to live in "diversity"? No!
They try to form their own little territories where everyone is just like them.

Yes Cody, it is "absurd" (and not in the good Monty Python sense).

Geoff Gallop the former Premier of WA wrote an
interesting ariticle for the Sydney Morning Herald
on "What does being Australian really mean?"

Amongst other things he stated that -
"Australia can never go back to where it was before
white settlement, where it was in 1901, where it was
before Whitlam and Fraser and where it was before Mabo."

"We are a nation of diversity and all the contraditions that
go with it. Managing these contraditions is our
inheritance today - and multiculturalism our best, even if
imperfect guide."

At present, Australia is one of the most ethically diverse
societies in the world. Well over twenty per cent of all
Australians were born in another country: more than half
of these have come to Australia from non-English-speaking
countries in Europe, the Middle East, South America and
Asia. More than 7 million (42 per cent) were born outside
Australia or had a parent born outside Australia. Seventeen
per cent speak a language other than English at home.

However, the concept of multiculturalism continues to have
different meanings for different people.

Some Australians still believe that "a unique Australian
society and identity emerged with Federation and ...
this identity should be the basis of immigrant assimilation."

However most Australians view Australia's cultural diversity
as a strength which makes for a dynamic society.
Within a framework of laws, all Australians have the right
to express their culture and beliefs. What is asked is that
Australian citizens make an overriding commitment to
Australia - its laws, its values and its people.
In that way Australia will continue in the 21st century as a
nation at ease with the world and with itself.

Dear Cody,

You can't compare Australia to Europe as far as
multiculturalism is concerned. Different situations.
May I politely suggest that you read the following
link to find out why:

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/mongrelnation/4829014

Foxy

well said. The is the original and ongoing interpretation of multiculturalism. We have never deviated from that.

My problem with MC is that anglo saxons are excluded yet they're constantly called upon by our do-gooders to top up the gravy train for imported no-gooders.
This in fact makes the do-gooders worse than the no-gooders. In any case decent people are outnumbered.

Dear Imajulianutter,

Thank You so much.

Dear Foxy

I have read the suggested article and am baffled that you think this proves or disproves anything. How do we know that asians don't take out citizenship because they are opportunists and it simply suits them? Also, I am equally baffled that you can claim 'most Australians view Australia's cultural diversity as a strength which makes for a dynamic society.' Do you have any statistics that back up that claim? I will point out to you that other countries are very comfortable with themselves in the 21st century without being 'multi' anything. Japan is one such country, with a mostly homogenous population, who ridicule other countries stupidity for allowing mass immigration.

The purpose of a multi-cultural society was to have a society that could be divided and conquered but in Australia it made us stronger, much to the ire of our elite masters of the Banking Military Industrial Complex.

We are not free or have a democracy because we now have a private banking system that creates from nothing all the money to equal growth + inflation,unlike China or Russia. We are the debt slaves or serfs of the 21st century.

Dear Cody,

Japan has traditionally always rejected any need to
recognise ethnic differences in Japan and they are
very much against immigration due to their low birth
rate and aging population. As for being a homogeneous
group - that's a myth. Minority groups do exist in Japan.

Australia on the other hand adopted an official policy of
multiculturalism (after Canada) and the Australian government
retains Multiculturalism in policy and as a defining aspect of
Australia today.

Therein lies the difference.

If you're after statistics - why don't you Google
the information for yourself. There's heaps of websites to
choose from. And the subject is quite educational as far as
Australia is concerned - especially why we're a success
compared to other countries.

Dear Foxy

Think about what you just wrote, and see the contradiction. As I said 'multiculturalism' is nothing more than an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance. The only real part is the scariest part, and that is the 'cult'. For it is truly a shrine whose adherents still believe in Original Sin, transferring it from the evil of being human to the evil of being white. Present day immigration rates will see white Australians becoming <50% of the population by 2050. Simple facts, why don't you google them? If we were discussing any other race becoming extinct in their own country it would be called genocide. Look it up in a dictionary. As for Japanese minority groups, they have so little differences from the ethnic majority they fade into insignificance.

By the way, I challenge you to show me a single poll that demonstrates the majority of Australians favour large immigration policies of non-European peoples.

White taxpayer money is being used to help fund diversity. In other words, Whites are paying to replace themselves by non-Whites.(read INSANITY)

And they are celebrating it! (read EXTREME INSANITY)

I repeat, WHITE LIBERALS ARE FUNDING AND CELEBRATING THEIR OWN ETHNIC DISPLACEMENT! This is LUNACY! No other race would do this.

Not only that, it is blindingly obvious that not every race is capable of building/maintaining a 1st world nation. You can‘t build 1st world nations with 3rd world immigrants. You can’t create wealth with races that have never created advanced nations themselves. The truth is “racist”.

In fact, non-Whites flock to White majority nations, because Whites build the most desirable societies. Again, the truth is “racist”.

Common sense 101: Society is a racial construct. Race is more than skin color difference.

Do most Whites honestly believe their nation will still be 1st world when Whites become a minority?

Racially diverse societies mean lower trust, democracy and happiness levels. (see Harvard Professor Putnam, Bowling Alone). People know this but refuse to believe it. They fear being labelled “racist”, or “hatemonger”.

Your race is your nation. Jews understand this. Asians understand this. Blacks understand this. Polynesians and Maoris understand this. However, Whites have been brainwashed to believe the opposite. But if they don't wake up soon, they will lose everything their ancestors worked and died for.

What's stopping minorities using their increasing wealth and power to promote their own interests at the expense of Whites? Minorities WILL NOT reciprocate the compassion and tolerance Whites have shown. (This cannot be emphasized enough)

Why are only White nations being targeted for diversity

Australia is not a "multicultural nation", Jatinder Kaur. It is an increasingly culturally divided society which will eventually take exactly the same path as every other ungovernable, culturally divided society at war with itself. Multiculturalism is exactly like Socialism, (which it closely resembles), how many times does it need to fail before our supposedly "smart" educated elites figure out it is a bad idea?

Already, the political leaders of France, Britain, Austria, Italy and Germany have made public statements to the effect that multiculturalism has failed within their own particular societies. One definition of "insanity" is "making the same mistake, over and over again." With the clear example of Europe a shining example of what not to do, Jatinder Kaur writes a puff piece extolling the virtues of emulating failure.

With a name like Jatinder Kaur, one presumes that she is another third world import who thinks that it would be a great idea for Australia to import all of her relos from the old country until Australia resembles what she fled from. Sorry, Jacinta. I don't want my country to resemble the Ukraine, Sudan, Lebanon, Fiji, Cyprus, Georgia, Afghanistan, Biafra, Rhodesia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Liberia, Kashmir, Punjab, Sudan, Nigeria, Bougainville, East Timor, Yugoslavia, Kurdistan, New Zealand, Bhutan, Angola, Burma, Chechnya, Guadalcanal, Aden, Malaya, Oman, Congo, Northern Ireland, Palestine/Israel, Czechoslovakia, Mexico, Thailand, Burma or any other buggered up multicultural utopia. But I fear that it will happen, and when it does, what other white western country are you going to flee to for succour then?

Increasingly, all western societies are becoming hostile to immigration and to country shopping "refugees." If you want racism to increase, then just keep up your good work of demanding the importation of unassimilatable, welfare dependent, crime, and terrorism prone ethnic groups

Totally agree with Cody, Gary and LEGO. MC is not just a lie, it is true evil, destroying successful countries. The people who promote MC should not be just labelled as misguided and ignorant. They should be seen as evil, they are promoting violence and destruction of our once socially cohesive society.
Five years ago when I used to read these pages and an article like this came up, there would be very few who would criticize it. Political correctness controlled what people said. Now I note increasingly more people expressing their opposition. Great to see.

I love this comment: <**Australia** on the other hand adopted... multiculturalism...>>

It stands well next to statements like: **Germany** (on the other hand) adopted Operation Barbarossa and invaded Russia --similar outcome(s) too!

While I do not agree with those that talk about race, I believe we should stop some groups immigrating because of incompatible culture. I do not care what race they are, it is the cultural differences that are important.

I suggest that we have now an opportunity, with the present government, to do away with MC officially. Those that want this to happen should write to the Minister for Immigration, Scott Morrison, suggesting MC be abandoned.

Multiculturalism was a serious mistake by our governments and it is past time it was rectified.

MC is nothing but a thin, rotten to the core thread to which greedy lefties cling in the hope of keeping the gravy train rolling. Sorry, you lot but there's stop lights ahead, get ready.
The new New Australians are not giving an ounce of care about you, the have been given promises of a fantastic afterlife & that's what they're focussing on.
The more miserable a life they can have here the better the afterlife. How can you defend a mentality like that Foxy ?

Foxy,
On the thread about racism you said one in ten Australians thought (according to poll) that multiculturalism worked well.

That means that nine out of ten did not think it worked well. Must remind the government of that.

You also said, "Australians are overwhelmingly very tolerant and the
majority of Australians approve the benefits of our
diversity.......". Now I agree that Australians are very tolerant, even too tolerant for our own good. But it is often cited that we approve of the benefits of diversity:-

Would you mind listing all those benefits of diversity? I can think of one, more choice of eating places for middle income people. Cannot think of other practical advantages.

If nine out of ten cannot see MC working well, any advantages must not be very obvious.

Foxy can not defend a mentality like that, individual, for such a mentality is indefensible. That is why he or she is so quiet on the subject. That mentality defies logic and reason and exemplifies the 13th century thinking of those stone throwing, barbaric hoards with their paedophile prophet mohammed (lower case intended). How the ilk of Foxy see those 'values' as in anyway enriching Australian culture is beyond me. As Banjo said, the only practical advantage to Australia of 'multiculturalism' is a greater variety of takeaway food. If we have an elected government who has the sole goal of a kebab shop on every corner then we need a new form of government! 10% of Australians support multiculturalism . . . wow Foxy; you really are a heavyweight! I agree with SPQR but think a better analogy would be that eastern Europe 'adopted' communism after WWII; communism was forced on them just as multiculturalism was forced on us. We don't want it and commonsense says enforced social engineering is doomed to failure. We don't need a reason to feel like that either, anymore than I need a reason for liking or disliking chocolate.

Dear Cody,

In answer to your earlier question -
A Galaxy poll run exclusively for News Limited revealed
people's attitudes in the run-up to Australia Day last year.
1000 people were interviewed and one in 10 said that
Multiculturalism worked very well - some said that it worked
so/so and a small minority said that it hadn't worked.
Most however felt that it worked and made Australia what it is
today. Of course we all know that racist elements exist in
the community - but they are a minority. Migration has made
an enormous contribution to Australia's culture, economy,
and social fabric. Australians are overwhelmingly very
tolerant and the majority of Australians do appreciate the
benefits of our diversity. After-all of Australia's 22 million
people about 44 percent were either born overseas or one or
both of the parents were born overseas.

Many Australians see migration as an undeniable fact of a
rapidly changing world that must lead to a fundamental
re-shaping of "Australians."

As Scott Morrison has stated:

"We have learned to appreciate our differences...
We must come back to the important point of connection
between all of us which is not where we have
come from - but where we are going together."

Dear Banjo,

Migrants have contributed to this country - economically,
socially, and culturally. They helped solve acute labour
shortages, they've done everything from increasing the
output of building materials, helping in the building of
Australian homes, saving fruit and sugar crops, maintaining
railways, building roads, working in sawmills, factories, on
sewerage projects, water conservation, mining, clearing
land, quarrying, et cetera.

They've had a tremendous economic
impact - including the re-building of Australia's capital
structures. Many established companies, factories, retain shops,
service and repair centres, many small businesses, they've entered
into - all kinds
of trades and professions. 49 per cent of all persons holding
higher degrees were born overseas. They've contributed to
infrastructure development - which has fuelled economic growth,
linguistically - 270 languages have been added -
- they've contributed to the arts, theatre, music,
teaching, ballet, and the list goes on.

Banjo. Individual.
What you said. Plus immigration has changed a great deal in the past five ten? years. More cultural differences and less willingness to integrate.

Foxy (quoting anyone but Foxy) "Australia can never go back to where it was"

Actually, it can go wherever we damn well want.

Because we *choose* the future. Nothing is inevitable.

We cannot change immigration that's already happened, but that doesn't mean we must continue along the same path.

"Seventeen per cent speak a language other than English at home."

That isn't much really.
And how many of those are European languages (i.e. spoken by White people).

"Japan are very much against immigration due to their low birth rate and aging population"

Excuse me?
And that isn't happening in Australia and other Western countries?

"Minority groups do exist in Japan."

Yes, but nobody goes around saying the minorities *define* what Japan is.

"Many Australians see migration as an undeniable fact of a rapidly changing world"

But the "world" isn't changing its demographics.
Only Western countries are.
(Ironically, all the "development" is happening outside the saturated West. So why are they coming here for "opportunity"?)

"the list goes on"

And everything on your (or is it the government's) list can be done by White people.

Dear Shocker,

Tim Soutphommasane is a presenter of the six part documentary
series - "Mongrel Nation: the Story of Australian
Multiculturalism." He states:

"Social change in Australia has always been accompanied by
cultural anxiety..."

For some there is a certain "Fortress Australia," mentality
against outsiders. However, as Mr Soutphommasane points out -
"the hardest work has already been done in accepting
differences by past generations."

"Yes, there remain challenges and Multiculturalism isn't
without its tensions. But today's Australians and the
attitudes of younger Australians in particular is on the
whole accepting of cultural diversity."

Mr Soutphommasane sums it up so well when he states,

"These to me at least are all strong signs, you might say
that on Multiculturalism Australia has come through its
historical trials in pretty good shape."

Foxy, "For some there is a certain "Fortress Australia," mentality
against outsiders. However, as Mr Soutphommasane points out -
"the hardest work has already been done in accepting
differences by past generations."

"Fortress Australia"?!

Say what? You need another reminder that Australia threw open its doors post WW2 to take in people displaced by the war.

Foxy, I had no idea that ballet was one of the benefits of Third World migration at all! Shame on me! And the list goes on? Mining, quarrying even. Heck, I bet no white Australian has ever thought of any of those things! You make me laugh in lots of ways - I notice you like to quote from people who have politically correct names such as 'Tim Soutphommasane', who to me sounds like any other snout at the endless trough of the multicultural industry. BTW, would you mind telling us where YOU are from, and what your ethnic background is? Your amazing leaps of logic puzzle me; I have no idea how you arrive at the conclusion that 'Australians are overwhelmingly very
tolerant and the majority of Australians do appreciate the
benefits of our diversity' from the results of that Galaxy poll, when only one in ten said it worked 'very well'. Did it ever occur to you that apathy is contagious in political systems where the views of the majority are swept aside by a system that gives us a choice of voting for tweedledum, or tweedledummer?

Dear Cody,

Ever heard of the Borovansky Ballet, The Elizabethan Opera
Ballet Company and the Australian Ballet (whose foundation
members were all migrants. And the current Sydney Dance Company
has many renowed ballet teachers and dancers - who are migrants.
Ever heard of "Mao's Last Dancer.?"
Of course not - being the "knowledgeable, educated man that
you are!"

otb,

Tim Soutphommasane is a presenter of the six part documentary
series "Mongrel Nation: The Story of Australian Multiculturalism."
His reference to a certain "Fortress Australia" mentality
comes from his research on the topic, and what people
actually experienced. The same goes for authors such as
Catherine Panich, "Sanctuary? Remembering post-war
immigration," and of course - Immigration authority -
Prof. James Jupp,
"From White Australia to Woomera: The story of Australian
Immigration," documentated the historical facts and
people's experiences of those difficult times.

Australia has welcomed settlers and new citizens from more
than 200 countries. Few countries have managed to combine
ethnic and cultural diversity with national unity as
successfully as Australia.

Foxy, "Few countries have managed to combine ethnic and cultural diversity with national unity as successfully as Australia"

Australia's experience with multiculturalism is also very short.

ethnic and cultural diversity with national unity as
successfully as Australia.
Foxy,
I have looked up successful in dictionaries & thesaurus' but I can't find anywhere where the situation with some immigrant groups to Australia fits that word. Can you provide one of your links please for all of us to see what you mean by successful ?

Foxy,
You evade the question. I asked what are the benefits of diversity which you and others claim. You posted a list of industries. Is diversity necessary to operate those industries.

I personally know a Aus woman that was part of the London ballet scene, which shows we do not need diversity for ballet or opera or other entertainments.

If I recall correctly you claimed earlier that before MC Aus was boring. Some claim also that MC enriched our society.

I say that before MC we were a far safer and cohesive society. I am sure the girls that were gang raped in specific racial attacks felt 'enriched' by the experience as are the anglo blokes that have been attacked by ethnic gangs.

So if diversity is of benefit to us then surely the more diverse we are the more benefits. So what other diverse cultural activities should we encourage to get the greater benefit. Surely charging a woman for sex outside marriage, after reporting a rape, or stoning an adultress, pedophilia and eating dog meat, spiders and maggots would add to the benefits of diversity.

I would like to see your suggestions. What about honour killings or acid attacks just for diversity? Why not see how diverse we can get. After all we are multicultural and there is a whole world full of alien cultural practices. Not boring, but interesting.

No Foxy, I have never heard of them at all. I work in the mining industry in outback WA, and have little time or energy for ballet at all. I am not sure what your point really is, or if you have one at all. I am sure there are just as many white ballet companies as there are ethnic. I am still yet to see a list of the benefits of this diversity you speak of. I can certainly tell you that non European migrants are NOT 'contributing' to the mining industry in any way, shape or form. Perhaps the girls that were anally gang raped in Sydney by lebanese migrants were suitably 'enriched' by the diversity of the experience as Banjo suggested? You certainly sound as though you would be.

Gentlemen,

It's obvious that you refuse
to acknowledge and see the contributions
that immigrants have made to this country of ours.

I can see that no matter what I say or write
sadly, it won't make the
slightest bit of difference to you. I would simply be
wasting my time. Therefore before leaving this discussion
I would just once again like to remind you of the words
of Tim Soutphommasane - the presenter of the six part
documentary series - "Mongrel Nation: the story of
Australian Multiculturalism," who stated:

"Social change in Australia has always been accompanied
by cultural anxiety for some. For others - there is a
certain "Fortress Australia" mentality against outsiders."

"However, the hardest work has already been done in
accepting differences by past generations.
Yes, there remain challenges and Multiculturalism isn't
without its tensions. But, today's Australia and the
atitudes of younger Australians in particular, is on the
whole accepting of cultural diversity. That to me at least
are all strong signs, you might say, that Multiculturalism has
come through its trials in pretty good shape."

Have a nice day.

Finally Foxy, you said wrote something worth reading. You are wasting your time, and your space as well.

Foxy,
Yes leave the thread because you cannot explain how 'diversity' benefits us or 'enrichs' our lives. These are just hollow words that mean nothing and just like the multiculti slogan 'Unity in diversity'.
There is not any unity, even amongst ethnic groups.

The simple fact is that multiculturalism was introduced in Aus as a social engineering exercise without any consultation with the community, let alone consensus.

It is an ideology that puts original culture ahead of national loyality. It divides us into groups and has no unifying aspects at all. Multiculti leaders have openly stated they desire a 'federation of ethnicities' not a unified nation.

I wonder how long it will be before calls are made to lower the age of consent, legalize FGM and forced marriage. There already have been calls to legalize polygamy and introduce sharia law.

Small price to pay for having a large choice of culinary experiences.

acknowledge and see the contributions
that immigrants have made to this country
Foxy,
No-one argues against that in case you hadn't noticed. What the sensible people & those who care about the future of Australia are on about is not migrants, they're on about soldiers of religion hellbent on destroying this country & to think that there are leftist traitors having the audacity to call themselves Australian is simply no longer acceptable.
Treason is probably the most foul thing a resident of a country can come up with.

Banjo,

Yes, supporters of institutionalised multiculturalism or mass immigration usually resort to implicit or explicit accusations of racism in attempts to defend the ideologies or they just beg the question. I've never heard or read any defence of multiculturalism itself that doesn't include that type of sophistry.
Some cultures are inimical to liberal democracy, no amount of propaganda will alter that fact.

If those of us who reject institutionalised multiculturalism are racists then by the same logic so are 'multiculturalists' by virtue of their refusal to assimilate.

Multiculturalism at work in the UK,

http://freethoughtblogs.com/butterfliesandwheels/2014/03/breathtakingly-sexist/#more-12712

Foxy "I can see that no matter what I say or write"

You don't say anything.
All you do is copy and paste other people's words.

"It's obvious that you refuse to acknowledge and see the contributions that immigrants have made to this country of ours."

No, I question why they have to be non-Western/non-European/non-White immigrants, and why there have to be so many (especially since the GFC).
Whites can contribute anything others can and more.
Plus they are unlikely to disrupt the traditional social environment in any significant way.

Fortress Australia?
More like Minefield Australia.
And the more crowded it gets, the more likely it will start exploding.

Every nation in history had a "fortress" mentality.
That's why they had armies to defend themselves.

Only recent White "elites" (not "the people") have relinquished national self-interest for a naive all-together utopianism.
That unlivable historical anomaly will not last much longer.

Dear Shocker,

This one's especially for you:

http://www.news.com.au/national/inspiring-tale-of-former-refugee-dr-munjed-al-muderis-and-war-hero-michael-swain-fncynjr2-1226849124080

Foxy,
your link is no longer viewable it has been removed. Why not just tell us what it's all about ?

Dear Individual,

It is there. Scroll down to "Web Results" on that page
and the website is - "Inspiring tale of former refugee
Dr Munjed Al Muderis and War Hero ..."
click on it.

Dear Banjo,

This one's for you:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/27036.html

Foxy,
Thanks for the link, but it does not explain how we get practical benefits from 'diversity', or how we are 'enriched'

what the link does show is that we are less cohesive because of diversity and we are more vulnerable to ethnic conflict and ethnic crime.

Comments below the article also gave some interesting information about high immigratio

Dear Banjo,

The link shows more than you can see - obviously.
And that is something over which I have no control.
Therefore all I can do is suggest for you to
Google the subject of the "Economic advantages of
cultural diversity in Australia,"
and see for
yourself - if you can.

I'm done here.

Cheers.

Thank God for that. Or Allah.

Dear Cody,

What a surprise - you've actually heard of Allah.

However, I must confess that reading your posts
is like being stoned to death with popcorn. You must
seriously try to do better. Give yourself a break -
look at the stars ever now and then -
instead of spending your time down in the pits.
You'll get a different out look.

Cheers.

Tsk Tsk. Stoning anybody to death with anything was never the intention. Go look in the mirror. Then look at your contradictions, then your grammar and spelling. Nothing you say makes any sense, it is convoluted, polysyllabic flatulence. BTW, they are my posts, not some vague reference to some nonentity with an unprounceable name.

Enjoy your shishkebab while reading whatever version of the koran tonight!

:-)

Dear Cody,

First you bring up Allah (BTW - I'm a Christian).
Now you bring up flatulence. Your obvious frustration
with words of more than one syllable is very telling.
You obviously are a very insecure, troubled soul. But never
mind. We can all understand where you're coming from
and why. I fully realise why you are unable to pronounce
longer surnames. You probably can only speak one language
as well and I'm guessing you haven't travelled either at all,
or perhaps only to places like Bali.

You need to get out more.
For your information, Dr Tim Soutphommasane is an extremely
distinguished persona. He's an Australian political
philosopher (University of Sydney), a writer (has written
many books published by Oxford University Press), a public official,
He is currently Australia's Race Discrimination Co9mmissioner
(five year appointment - on 20 August 2013) - and much, much, more.
You should do a bit of research before you post - otherwise
you do appear as an ignoramus.

And in closing - I would just like to add that my taste
in food does not extend to shish-kebabs. I prefer sea-food.
My ancestry is from a land situated on the shores of
the ocean, noted for its luscious forests, beautiful orchards,
plentiful lakes and fertile soil.

As for your suggestion of my reading the Quran at night?
You flatter me. However, I'd much rather curl up with
something a bit lighter - like Dan Brown's "The Da Vinci Code."
Which is more entertaining.

Cheers.

I am not sure how a psychologist/psychiatrist would analyse you. You seem to see the world as only a response to your existence. You really should see someone about that. I do believe that, in person, you would actually talk at people rather than to, or with them. Borderline Personality Disorder perhaps? As for your 'distinguished' person; in what way has he actually contributed anything concrete to the Australian economy or social fabric? Would it make the slightest bit of difference to Australia if he were not here? Your mind is a circus and the clowns are in charge.

Bye!

Dear Cody,

If you took your blinkers off for a moment you
just might see the world as it really is.
It's a beautiful place - and humans are the most
extraordinary creatures. Yes, I have met some bad
people along the way. But I have also met some
amazing souls as well. You want me to see a
psychiatrist? Why, because my views don't agree
with yours? And you're ignorant and don't understand
big words?

I am constantly amazed that people
such as yourself who constantly blurp about
social cohension in this country - are the very ones
who don't get on with others. Strange that.

As I cited earlier Australia can never go back to
where it was before white settlement, where it was
in 1901, where it was before Mabo.

Like it or not, we are a nation of diversity and all
the contradictions that go with it. Managing these
contraditions is our inheritance and Multiculturalism our best,
even if imperfect guide.

You need to do a bit of research to
what Australia was really like before the waves of immigrants
arrived - (dull and boring - a cultural
backwater)-
this country was made on the backs of immigrants.
And continues to be made.

You as you grow old will end up
having health care given by immigrant doctors, you'll end
up in a Nursing home being looked after by immigrant staff-
and as you slober into you corn flakes - it will be immigrants
who'll wipe your mouth, feed you, and change your nappies.

Bye!

Foxy

I am a metallurgist. I have more than one University Degree. I have lived and worked all over the world, from Greece to New Zealand. I work in the real world with real people, and we are responsible for producing far and away the vast majority of Australia's wealth. Far too much of that money is spent on errant knaves such as yourself, and the people and offices you so admire. The only time you don't contradict yourself is when you keep your mouth shut. I have no intention of ever going into a nursing home or needing nappies. You, on the other hand, appear to already wear your nappies on your head, and those nappies are most certainly full of their desired load.

Foxy, "You need to do a bit of research to what Australia was really like before the waves of immigrants arrived - (dull and boring - a cultural backwater)- this country was made on the backs of immigrants"

You always revert to your cultural elitism and cultural cringe. That is why you are in the habit of repeating that offensive sledge by Phillip Adams, wherein he claimed in truly culturally cringing Left fashion that Australia was 'nullaboring' before the RECENT large waves of immigration for ethnic 'diversity'.

If you actually read Adam's quote more closely you might realise that he was also calling your parents and yourself 'nullaboring' because your parents were offered and accepted sanctuary in Australia immediately after WW2. Adams was referring to the migration waves that came decades later. It follows that the Lituanians and other European peoples who came to Oz are not part of the political 'Progressives'' grand plan for the Asianisation of Australia.

Nonetheless, that Adams' snipe seems to appeal to your distaste for our British inheritance and traditions, as influenced by post-WW2 European migration. Your dislikes to one side, not everyone believes it is necessary as the genuflecting (to Asia) political 'Progressives' aka International Socialists Hawke and Keating did, that Australia has to reflect Asia, to be Asianised to fit in with its geographical location.

The linked article given below would be interesting to others, since you are always firm in your bigotry (Brandis would support your free speech, not the prejudice) and forever endeavoring to sledge Australia as Adams did in the quote that has so taken your fancy that you must continually use it over the years,

"We don't have to be Asianised to be an asset to the region", (The Australian, November 14, 2012)

http://tinyurl.com/k84wny

My link supplied above might not work, here again,

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/we-dont-have-to-be-asianised-to-be-an-asset-to-the-region/story-e6frgd0x-1226516154184#

otb,

You Sir, are only entitled
to speak on your own behalf, not on mine, not on
the behalf of Mr Philip Adams, or any one else.
You can interpret and twist historical facts as
you tend to do, but that does not change what people
actually lived through and experienced first hand.

I'm done arguing with you - and frankly if I wasn't
raised to be polite - I would tell you to blow it out
of your rear end. But of course I won't.

Dear Cody,

I hear what you're telling me - and good for you to
have achieved as much as you have. I also have several
degrees and have travelled the world. We lived and
worked in the United States for a decade.
I am a librarian by profession, my husband is an architect.
I am proud to be an Australian - but am equally proud
of my heritage and will not allow anyone to denigrade
the contribution that migrants have made to this country.
Which I am sure you can appreciate.

See you on another discussion.

Cheers.

otb,

This is a part of the article that was reprinted from
The Age, 12/7/1980, by Phillip Adams - for your
information, These were random thoughts
when asked to speak at a Conberra conference on
"Multi-Culturalism in the Eighties."
He spoke of the times in which he was born and lived in
Australia:

"My birth coincided with that famous multi-cultural evnet.
World War II. Not thay it seemed an urgent threat - for we
lived in perhaps the most remote, ethnocentric, inward-
looking and changless society on Earth. No, not Lhasa in Tibet.
but East Kew in Victoria.

Our family name was Smith and my playmates had names like
John, Peter and David.

So when foreign kids began appearing in the playground at
East Kew State, we stopped chanting "Catholic dogs stink
like frogs," over the fence at the Micks next door and turned
on the enemies among us, yelling "Go back to your own
country, you reffos," in their frightened faces."

And there's more, much more that captures those times -
which you seem hell bent on denying existed.

My parents were consistently told to "Speak English,"
(they spoke 8 languages), I was called "unpronouncable"
and my Mathematics teacher took a great delight in
punching me in the back every time she passed my desk.
Santucary - indeed! And there's much, much, more.
That's not sledging Australians - that's simply stating
the times we lived through and experienced! And I'll be
damned if I'll allow you to deny it ever happened!

Foxy,

As has been pointed out to you on many times before, you don't have to carry that baggage. It is your choice and your monkey on your back to do so.

I must have met thousands of people including families and teachers when going through education from primary school on. I remember some very hard times, coming from farms in remote areas and drought, floods and fires were always present somehow. Almost ever girl and boy I knew attended a State primary and then private boarding school by necessity. There was a high representation of orphans from the common farm, railway (level crossings) accidents and solo war widows from WW2.

There was bullying and tough, uncompromising teachers, the cuts and humiliations. The State schools ere the worst. Some Catholic schools were harsh. At the State primary schools it was not unusual for children to attend with injuries that should have been treated. For example the simple break of an arm, but in those days children were seen as self-healing(!).

I don't know who should apologise for the bad things, but they were shared equally about, although the bullying would have been what was convenient at the time.

For what it is worth I apologise to your and your parents for any insults and insensitivity on ethnic grounds. I witnessed very little of that. I can only assume that it was in what could have been seen as the 'Bogan' suburbs back then.

Frankly, if I was to feel guilty and I do, it is for the many children I knew for whom serious violence at home was usual, but the children, even later, were always at pains to conceal that. What about Wards of the State, where it is only in very recent times that their plight has been recognised. Even though I was a child myself at the time one always wonders about the clues I ought to have picked up on.

There was enough cr@p and harshness in most lives at the time. Maybe you are only seeing what affected you and yours.

otb,

I appreciate your apology.

However, to set the record straight.
I don't carry any baggage as you suggest, nor do I
have a chip on my shoulder - merely responding to
you. As I did in the past. And I'm not seeing this
just from my families point of view. Much has been
written about those times. Catherine Panich from the
University of South Australia wrote the book,
"Sanctuary?Remembering post-war immigration," where
she documented the experiences of migrants. I mentioned
this work to you previously. Also Dr James Jupp,
Australia's authority on immigration did the same in his
book, "From White Australia to Woomera: The Story of
Australian immigration." Neither "sledged Australia or
Australians," and neither did I.

Those were the times that existed then, and the government
policies. It was a time that as Phillip Adams also pointed
out saw homogeneity as not only desirable but mandatory.
And judging from quite a few of the comments on this and
other discussions on this forum some people would have
us return to those times.

I was born in this country and although I am proud of my
ancestry I am also equally proud to be Australian.
My family encompasses British relatives, German, Russian,
Lithuanian, Scottish Swedish, and recently - Chinese.
And I am not alone in seeing -
Australia's cultural diversity as a strength which
makes for a dynamic society. And believing that within a
framework of laws, all Australians have the right to
express their culture and beliefs. They have a right to
be different, to protect their traditions, to remember their
languages.

Undoubtedly there were harshness in most lives at that time.
But it certainly did not help newcomers some of whom had suffered
unbearable circumstances that they were fleeing to build a
new life in a new country to be made to feel so unwelcome.
This is something that we need to also remember and take into
account in the way we deal with asylum-seekers today.

Foxy

I have no intention of apologising to you. I think you are incredibly rude, intolerant and obnoxious to an extreme to automatically assume that because I work in the mining industry I am 'uneducated', 'ignorant', and have only travelled to Bali. That makes about as much sense as me simply assuming you have never had sex because you are a librarian. I think you should take your blinkers off and start looking at people by determining their qaulity, not their qualifications. Some of the smartest people I have ever met have been truck drivers, and some of the stupidest people I have ever met have PhDs. Just because you are erudite and articulate does not mean you are right; it means you are erudite and articulate. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else. Was Adolph Hitler right?

I, and obviously a great many others, see mass immigration and 'multiculturalism' as huge ponzi scheme with no end in sight. The associated commercial idea that we have to become asianised to be an asset to the growing asian economies has absolutely no logical foundation whatsoever. China would buy our iron ore whether or not we all spoke mandarin. India and Pakistan would be on the brink of nuclear conflict with or without Australian immigration policies. It chills me to the bone to see this country waste money on people such as Dr Tim Soutphommasane who is Australia's Race Discrimination Commissioner, according to you. What, exactly, does he do all day? Go to meetings about absolutely nothing, power point presentations, conferences and endless junkets?

Australian unemplyment is rising and immigration rates are increasing? That makes no sense to me. If you owed money would it make sense to you to start spending more? Idiocy.

Hi Cody,

I'm not seeking any apologies from you.
I can only judge you from
your posts as I don't really know you
and your posts are all I've got to go on. I don't judge
people by their qualifications - on the contrary.
Pigs will be pigs - with or without degrees.
Only educated pigs should know better. But it's
a question of their up-bringing I guess.

In any case the art of reasoned, intelligent argument
as I've stated in the past is a skill not easily acquired.
Sound reasoning will conquer unreasonable generalisations
every time. No one likes or supports an abusive, illogical or
weak debater.

Of course we'll all react when the right buttons are pushed
and we might say to ourselves afterward, "Gee, I shouldn't
have said, or maybe I should have said it differently."
Of course it is important to be conscious and compassionate
and act with great civility - but we should not forsake
our own wisdom because we fear that we will lose something.
What's more important? Losing your face, or losing
your integrity?

Many Australian attitudes to immigration and multiculturalism
are strongly engrained and are similar to those in other
receiving countries. Many are suspicious of
immigration and immigrants, according to opinion polling.

It is a responsibility of governments to explain the
realities. For attitudes to change in the future there needs a
greater degree of consensus and bipartisanship.

This
doesn't mean repressing debate - it means simply reasserting
that Australia cannot return to the white British imperial
past nor to the outback Dreamtime of rural romantics.
To maintain its population and productive workforce requires
a level of immigration at least as high as at present. This
will necessarily increase the non-British and non-European
proportion of the population. Governments which, as in the
past, bear the responsibility for immigration also bear the
responsibility for explaining and justifying the social
and economic changes which this brings.

What we need in this country instead of political point
scoring is a more constructive and bupartisan approach to be
developed by our leaders.

cont'd ...

Dear Cody,

You may not like it but eventually you will
have to accept growing numbers of tourists,
entrepreneurs and students from Asia, some of
whom will remain here permanently. This acceptance
will have to go along with a recognition of
Australia's dependence for trade and security on its
relationship with Asian states.

This doesn't mean severing links with Europe or the
English-speaking world. They also have growing
connections with Asia, and with each other, of which Australia
must be a part. The sensible compromise between Keating's
"Australia is part of Asia," and Joh Howard's greater
affinity with the English-speaking world is to accept that
Australia is a part of both.

It is a responsibility of governments to explain these
realities.

Foxy

Just keep listening to yourself.

Adieu

Dear Cody,

Gotcha.

Foxy "No one likes or supports an abusive, illogical or weak debater."

Mirror, mirror on the wall...

"To maintain its population and productive workforce requires a level of immigration at least as high as at present."

Why do we need to "maintain" our population size?
With the mechanisation and computerisation of virtually everything, we will need far *fewer* workers in the future.

How about making the *existing* population more "productive" first.
We already have over 700,000 unemployed (many of them your beloved immigrants).

"This will necessarily increase the non-British and non-European proportion of the population"

To 80%? (The current immigration ratio).
What? The White world is suddenly devoid of educated, skilled people?

"Gotcha"

You haven't "got" anyone in your whole life.

Dear Shocker,

Think whatever you like.

The future will take care of itself despite
your protestations. Which actually don't amount
to very much at all. Its so convenient
to have your little gab fest here behind the
veneer of anonymity, and on a forum such as this.
So easy.

The term "Gotcha!" was directed to Cody - and his
use of the word "Adieu" actually meant that I did
have some influence on him after all - for him to
sign off in French - I took that as a big step forward.

As for my not getting anything in my life?
Well, let's see - I have a husband, two children,
three grand-children, friends, colleagues, neighbours,
who I love dearly. I have a fabulous job, excellent salary,
I've just bought a luxury car, I have an architect-designed
house, so sorry - you loose in your assumptions!
(apart from also being absolutely stunning looking, with killer
cheek-bones, slender build, almond-shaped eyes, over 5ft ten,
with the greates mane of hair ever). And a brain that's not bad.
No complaints so far. Life's been good.

What about you - can you beat that?

Bye again.

Shocker

Notice the 'librarian' did not actually read what you wrote. Such a shame. Notice also the 'librarian' made no attempt to reply to your valid points, and simply assumed My 'Adieu' was directed at me as it 'actually meant that I did
have some influence on him after all - for him to
sign off in French - I took that as a big step forward.' As I said previously, I have lived and worked all over the world.

Foxy, you truly sound like a BPD, grandiose and unrealistic, and think the world revolves around them. You are also evasisve to an extreme - another characterisitc of BPD. Just underneath is probably a deep buring rage and anger.

Now I have some work to do, and by work I do mean work, not 'activity' such as meetings and presentations.

BTW

How much of the very fine clothes you are undoubtedly wearing right now are actually made here in Australia?

Dear Cody,

Thank You for asking.

I make my own clothes, always have, because of my height -
even my jeans - in which I practically live.

BTW: Welcome back!

Dear Cody,

For someone who's accused me of being all sorts
of things you are exhibiting all the signs yourself
that you're accusing me of. I've been described by
people who really know me as a fairly down to earth
person and not "grandiose" in any shape whatsoever.
My job entails dealing with all sorts of people.
And my responsibility is not to push people away,
but to add, enrish, stimulate and
amplify.

I grew up in the Western suburbs of Sydney and have
worked all of my life. Nothing was ever given to me.
I earned it - and worked damn hard for it.
I'm not the sort of person who sits in their "ivory tower,"
at work and attends meetings et cetera. I'm a hands-on
type of person - who's there with the front-line desk staff
doing her job. And my staff know - that I will do whatever
it takes to provide the best service to the public we serve.
And please don't refer to me as a "librarian," that's not
the sum of what I am. I'm much more than that.
As I assume you're not just an engineer.
We're both people - human beings, full of the complexes
that entails with a multitude of interests.

As for evasion as far as Shocker is concerned?
I wasn't evading. I simply didn't see the point
for obvious reasons. I've known Shocker for some time on
this forum - and he is very passionate in his views.
I don't feel obliged to respond to them every time because
we've covered this ground so many times in the past.

BTW - I'm so glad that both you and Shocker took my
remark (and the explanation to Shocker) about my use of
"Gotcha" so seriously. Imagine if you guys would have
realised that perhaps I was being facetious.

Foxy, "Well, let's see - I have a husband, two children,
three grand-children, friends, colleagues, neighbours,
who I love dearly. I have a fabulous job, excellent salary,
I've just bought a luxury car, I have an architect-designed
house, so sorry - you loose in your assumptions!
(apart from also being absolutely stunning looking, with killer
cheek-bones, slender build, almond-shaped eyes, over 5ft ten,
with the greates mane of hair ever). And a brain that's not bad.
No complaints so far. Life's been good"

Is that so? What the hell then have you been about in the umpteen years you have spent on this very forum claiming victim status for your parents and yourself? Your posts are repetitive in theme and content, and nowhere have you ever conceded there is another side.

Not that the Lituanian community in Australia are asserting the discrimination and victim status you claim on their behalf. As demonstrated to you on previous occasions and using the largest Lithuanian population in Australia as the example, there isn't even the hint of any protest about past or present discrimination. Quite the opposite, they are thankful for the generosity of Australia giving them refuge. But in past threads you scoffed at that too, even where I supplied documentary evidence, a photo even.

An onlooker might argue that it is the children of migrants who claim discrimination, despite very positive government initiatives to favour them in government employment especially.

tbc..

contd..

Your hubris and boasting in this thread have you coming across as a complete prat, an insensitive, very comfortably well-off educated, privileged, middle class woman who has always been in the protected employment swinging from the taxpayer's teat. It is not surprising that you exasperate some of the posters who have not had the benefit that armchair ride (and like the Lituanian community in Sydney would never claim victim status either).

Why should you ever move a jot on the victim mentality that obviously has always served you so well? Ye gods, you have all of the ducks lined up in a row to claim and benefit from the 'positive' affirmative policies for women implemented for donkeys years, and for the multicultural ones as well. I said previously I was sorry you were bullied as a child as you said.

You now have me thinking that you are just another faux teary-eyed socialist who is doing very well out of the taxpayer and likely has done so for her lifetime. You should be thanking your parents, Australia and your lucky stars. You should be grateful and doing voluntary work, not special pleading for everyone's sympathy and for more cream from the government for your niche brand of cafe latte.

Middle class welfare comes under many guises.

otb,

I have never claimed "victim status" as you put it.
That's been your assertion and yours alone - all along.
What I did do was talk about the experiences which
my family and other migrants lived through and
experienced during those early years of post World
War II - of their settlement in this country.
These experiences have
been fully documentated by many authors
(which I've quoted to you) and these facts
are part and parcel of this country's
historical records. That's in no way sledging
off at Australians (again your assertion only). It's
simply telling what people experienced during those early
years when assimilation was the official government policy
and was expected to be followed by all.

As for the Lithuanian Community
in Sydney - I am more than familiar with that Community
and what people experienced and lived through and thought
- having
grown up in Sydney and been a part of that Community
for decades. So don't tell me what they thought, felt,
et cetera. I happen to know - you don't.

As for living off the Government "teat" as you put it.
Are you basing this on your own life?
What me and my parents and family have - we all
worked for and earned through blood, sweat and tears.
None of us have ever been on
welfare and have never asked for anything from anybody.
We've all worked in the lowliest jobs at times, and we
paid our taxes.

It's interesting that I have to keep explaining myself to
you after each of your attacks.
Yet I have never been told by you what your background
is, where you have worked, and whether you have ever been
on the government "teat." I've not accused you of the sorts
of things you've accused me of.

I can now see that your earlier apology to me
was a sham. Silly me took it sincerely and was
quite moved by it. You touched my heart.

You've lost me with this last post of yours.
If your intention was to hurt me deeply.
Well Sir, you have succeeded!

But you never play the victim.

Time to open the other eye and stop cherry-picking to suit your world view.

Yes, Cody, Foxy never does seem to read my comments, which would explain why there's no real response.

Now Foxy claims to have addressed everything "many times" before.
Like hell! Evade, ignore, dismiss. That's all Foxy ever does.

Foxy, "Gotcha" = "I got you" (i.e. I beat you, I one-upped you).
It has nothing to do with your personal relationships or assets.
Don't use words if you don't know their meanings.

"The future will take care of itself"

Yes, but it won't be the one you're expecting.

The more Third World "outsiders" you bring in, the more opportunities for Australians to have bad experiences with them.

The pedestrian I saw punched in the face by a Pacific Islander the other day is NEVER going to forget who broke his nose.

One bad experience and you can guarantee he will never vote for a genocidal pro-diversity Big Australia party ever again.

He will also tell all his friends and family about it.

Enough people having enough bad experiences and your utopian fantasy is over.
Enjoy your luxurious, pleasant life while you still can.

War is coming and your smugness will define you as "the enemy".
Guess what happens to "the enemy"?

Dear Shocker,

When you surprise me and actually say something
intelligent I'll be happy to respond to you more deeply.
why I might even read your entire post.

In the meantime - you're full of it,
yet you insist on spreading it around.
Ah well, as I've said previously that's the price
we pay for free speech.

As long as you keep doing what you're doing,
you'll keep on getting what you've got!