"Everyone is equal, but some are more equal than others."

Marxism has an intellectual appeal for those that find the prospect of equality and shared community appealing. The problem is that the majority of people find it oppressive. The only states that have embraced Marxism have required tyranny and brutality on a massive scale to coerce the unconverted into compliance.

People living in Marxist states might experience some level of equality, but it is in squalor and poverty. and fear for their lives.

Furthermore JKJ - as to 'what would not be controlled by govt".

In short: A lot!

First there would be an entrenched series of civil liberties: of association, speech and assembly; and pluralism in the media and public sphere - including the rights of private media. Thoug there will still be public media - and state aid for independent media across the political spectrum.

Secondly: there would be a host of consumers and producers co-operatives. Some of these would involve state-aid but not state control. The co-ops could also involve local communities and other stakeholders. eg: in the case of SPC it would have involved producers, the Shepparton local community and growers....

Finally there would be a host of small businesses operating alongside the public and co-operative enterprises. As well as engagement with the global economy - including engagement with multi-national corporations in order to access the best innovations in the global economy; and also to secure markets for Australian products....

There would also be co-determination in local enterprises, including the local branches of the multinationals....

BTW Strategic socialisation could also include natural resources; especially mining; But in the global market there would still be competition.

If a world came to be where innovation could be secured overwhelmingly without competition that would be great. But we're nowhere near that yet... Hence I urge a relatively modest approach by democratic socialists in the here and now.

Not to mention that we need a diverse array of economic power-bases - as this itself helps preserve pluralism and maintain a situation where various interests hold each other accountable.

Also pls note that even the old Marxism only held state ownership to be a transitional affair... I am less confident and less ambitious - and my ideal for now is the "democratic mixed economy" - as the best workable compromise.

Hi Tristan,

You say << I am simply saying to Andrew Bolt - you do not understand Marxism >>

Rubbish, you have not said it to AB, you are saying it to OLO!

When you have a response from AB you can share it with us, then we will believe you.

Great to see you going round in ever decreasing circles of ideological content. I guess this means you have nothing else to offer and will finally disappear in a puff of smoke!

The rightwing loonies are in full cry now....

Here is one (Cohenite):

"The GFC is an example of Marxism at work not capitalism."

added onto their usual uncontrolled slanders.

Most reasonable people will know that Cohenite's statements are false.

the spin doctor/quote..<<..
Rubbish, you have not said it to AB,
you are saying it to OLO!>>

AND DOING A DAMM FINE JOB OF IT TOO
MAKE HE IS TAKING..ON THE PAID TO BLOG BRIGAde[pro's paid to post]

seE last 20 minutes..
http://whatreallyhappened.com/podcasts/hourtitle3.m3u

ALSO FIRST 20 MINUTES HERE
http://rss.infowars.com/20140225_Tue_Alex.mp3

we akk know what we are here for
if we build it..'he will COME'..[if he sees we are seriously expanding on his point/mates help
mates..by pointing out lifES DANGERS
to those ..in the loop/know..ie misprison

LESt we forget..the key word
misprisON..MEANS SILENCE ISNT GOLDEN..ITS TREASON
its the same moneyed elite..that divides us.from each other/anyway they can.[we all are in this together.

thats just HOW YOUR POST SOUNDS.
LETS BUILd it..he will come?

ITS THE DOG THAT SDONT GRowl
that bites ya bum

ps the dutch..wear wooden shoes..because we duTCH..HATE SNEAKS/SNEAKING UP om us..thus you hear the dutchman comming..miles away

cause we dont like surprize nor need sir prize.

BTW Cohenite: Animal Farm was written by George Orwell - who was a democratic socialist - and who fought with the POUM (Party of Marxist Unification) against fascism in Spain.

Shadow Minister continues to ignore the examples of democratic Marxism in action I have mentioned. Specifically Austro-Marxism; but to this we could add Allende's government in Chile. Also Italy came within a inch of having a unified Eurocommunist/Christian Democratic government in Italy. (Look up the difference between Eurocommunism and Stalinism) Specifically in Italy Christian Democratic leader Aldo Moro was assassinated by the Red Brigades - no doubt with an eye to derailing the alliance. Again and again Leftists attempt to extend and deepen democracy - and 'take the democratic path' - but for all the talk of authoritarianism, terror and repression (which did apply to Stalin) - it is not the Democratic Left that stands out - but its enemies.

Also pray tell how I can contact Andrew Bolt when a message I sent via his blog either never reached him - or he never responded; And when there is no other way of reaching him; Except an email function where I cannot even finish a sentence...

Finally re: all this criticism of the welfare state and the mixed economy - I urge more Conservative readers to look to the German Christian Democrats and their policies during the 1950s. As with the attempted Italian 'historic compromise' - there are times when 'compassionate, liberal small 'c' conservatives' and democratic socialists can find common cause. Based on observance of civil and liberal rights, and opposition to extreme laissez faire when ends in extreme poverty for many, and great inequality.