Oh dear! I take it all back. No wonder the commanders of the Australian ships didn't know where their bows were, let alone their sterns, in relation to where Indonesia thinks it is.
Perhaps we could pay a bush lawyer to accompany each vessel. That way the lawyer and the commander could hang about discussing the finer points of where on the ocean they are while the towed vessel bobs along in their wake.

Hi Indy,

You say << I ask again what are Australian Navy ships doing further north than the half-way line between the two nations ? What is the need ? >>

I’m trying to help but I’m not sure I fully understand your question?

The distance between any territorial maritime borders is just international waters, that’s it. “Half way between” has no relevance.

The international water between the Indo’s and Australia is small. So to have any chance of “policing these” waters, early detection and interception is vital.

Unless a Navy asset is “head on” to the target, the wider the angle to “beam” the greater the distance. Think of it as a triangle, the upright being the head on position. The further off to the beam, the greater the distance you have to travel to “intercept”.

Therefore it makes sense to position assets where they have the best chance to detect and then intercept targets before they breach Australian territorial borders.

I doubt anyone knows what Australian assets are deployed, how many, where they are located in international waters, what their patrol patterns are, what aerial surveillance they have access to or what speed they can make, so I can’t answer your question, “what is the need?.

The above link I sent to Binoy will answer all your questions about what the Indo maritime borders are and where they (think) they are. Please note that the WGS84 analysis highlighting all the Indo maritime border problems was actually written by the Indo’s themselves.

The one thing of which we can be absolutely certain is that the Indo’s don’t have a clue where their borders are and nobody else does either.

So when the ABC, Fairfax and Binoy try to make a case against Australia on this issue, it’s a right load of old cobblers. Unless of course they wish to argue the case with the Indo’s?

spindoc,
So, what you're saying is that there are no international waters between Australia & Indonesia ? If there are then what are australian Navy ships doing in international waters so close to indonesian waters ?
What business would they have to be so far off Australia ?

Hi Indy,

Sorry but you have lost me.

No international waters between Oz and the Indos’? What?

What are Oz ships doing in international waters? No body needs a pass for international waters?

Close to Indo waters? What does “close mean”, it is still international waters.

Don’t know what you are on today Indy, but if it’s a good red, let me know.

Spindoc,
I’m afraid you got me confused now. What is it you don’t get ? International waters yes, Indonesian & Australian waters yes. You say no pass is needed for international waters, agree. What does close mean, it is still international waters, yes.
I’m on about what the dickens are Australian Navy ships doing so close to Indonesia, international waters or not. What business have they to be up there when they’re supposed to be patrolling the Australian sea border ?
Whilst they’re zig-zagging along Java fishing boats loaded with silent invaders are cruising to Australia. At this time things are quiet due to the monsoons but once the season changes it’ll be on for young & old again. My thinking would be for the Australian Navy ships to pick up vessels crossing into Australian sea territory & take them to Manus or wherever, as long as it’s not to the Australian mainland because once they set foot ashore here it’s all over red rover. Don’t go all the way to Indonesia & pick them up there, wait till they cross the line here.

Hi Indy,

You seem to be working on the premise that the OZ Navy should not be patrolling in international waters?

You keep asking << I’m on about what the dickens are Australian Navy ships doing so close to Indonesia, international waters or not. What business have they to be up there when they’re supposed to be patrolling the Australian sea border ? >>

You seem to think that the Navy is supposed to be patrolling “our sea border” and that the Navy has “no business” in international waters or to operate “close” to the Indo maritime border?

If that is your premise then no wonder you are confused because I think non of that is true.

The main Navy tasks are detect, intercept and identify.

The patrol area is from our own coastline right up to the Indo maritime borders. We patrol within our own maritime border and all (any) international waters.

Waingapu to Derby 1,000km, less Indo maritime 12km, patrol area approx. 988km. Or South Cilacap to Christmas Island 470km, less Indo maritime 12km, patrol area 468km.

This defines only the most direct but very large part of the “patrol area”. This is patrolled for the purpose of detection, interception and identification. The Navy may detect and intercept but subsequently “identify” as just a fishing boat. They may detect, intercept and subsequently “identify” as a Suspected Irregular Entry Vessel (SIEV).

So to your question, “ what the dickens are they doing so close to Indo?” They are protecting our borders from incursions by SIEV’s, by early detection, interception and identification.

To your issues that the Navy has “no business” in international waters or to operate “close” to the Indo maritime border? I suggest you may be mistaken but you can correct me if you think I’m wrong.

If you think the Oz Navy is in some way restricted to patrolling only our 12 km << Australian sea border >>, then again I think you are wrong but will stand to be corrected.