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The Forum > Article Comments > The dark side of Western Civilization’s legacy > Comments

The dark side of Western Civilization’s legacy : Comments

By Riaz Hassan, published 4/2/2014

The notion of ‘deicide’ in Christianity lies at the heart of the anti-Semitism of European Christian societies - sites of numerous Jewish pogroms over the centuries.

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All these negatives are already taught at the university level. So there's nothing to change in university curriculums if you're wanting to show how bad the West was. The positives are almost non-exist now. So now "progressives" can feel really, really good and about feeling really, really bad about the past.

But it's not all bad, is it? Especially for those who are funded to research and write these negatives. It's an ingenious scheme: lambasting and denigrating the society and system while also receiving money from that society and system. I am not sure any non-Western country has a system where they have tax payer funded positions whose job is to denigrate and lambaste that system. Maybe some future research can be done on "The dark side of academic funding".
Posted by Aristocrat, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 10:11:26 AM
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...well now that children's storytime from Flinder's University is over here's a grown up's view of Western History:

Why We Are Afraid, A 1400 Year Secret, by Dr Bill Warner
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_Qpy0mXg8Y
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 10:37:28 AM
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The great truth-telling novelist William Faulkner once reminded us that - The past isn't dead. It isnt even past.
Which is to say its ghosts or the immutable karmic patterns that it creates very much haunt and pattern every aspect of the present situation.
Ian C Friedman via his website Words Matter sums up the implications of Faulkner's insight.

A timely and well written essay.
A necessary counterpoint to the one-dimensional positivism upon which all of our "official" his-stories are fabricated, the kind of his-stories promoted by the IPA and all of the usual right-wing culture wars suspects.

Speaking of the influence of positivism it is interesting to note that while supporting the "official" positivism version of history, Quadrant magazine regularly features essays criticizing the baneful curse of positivism both in religion and the teaching of the humanities in the Academy.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 12:18:30 PM
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and the history of Eastern and Indigeneous cultures? So easy to put such a distorted slant on history and demonise past generations while receiving the benefits of what the pioneers brought here. What is it about the 'progressive ' dogmas that are required if you want a Government funded research job? Just happens that the rest of the world want to come to America and Australia due largely to the society set up by the forefathers. Few if any of the modern 'progressives' would of been prepared to make the sacrifices necessary. Yes their is a dark side to all corrupt man however the nonsense written here shows why the curriculum needs reviewing. The author fails to mention a better country.
Posted by runner, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 12:19:35 PM
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"Among the most notable achievements of Western civilization are the liberal democracy, capitalism and robust civil societies based on reason." WOT ROT!

Nowhere in the world do I see liberal democracies. What I do see is the control of politicians by wealthy oligarchs and corporations.

Capitalism is not an achievement. It is a curse. It has encouraged a psychotic greed in mankind which has replaced what little egalitarianism, nobility and morality we once had.

Robust civil societies? Most humans are wage-slaves who care little about the political, militaristic and economic sharks who constantly eat away at their freedoms and rights.

Western Civilization? Here we are, poised on the edge of nuclear extinction as imperial nations fight for control of scarce resources while people gorge themselves on gadgets and electronic gizmos and you call that 'civilization'?

Not in my book!
Posted by David G, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 1:35:10 PM
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Hmm, not sure about this. Who exactly “claims that anti-Semitism is unique only to Islamic societies”. I think the Christian West’s history of anti-Semitism is well-documents and fully acknowledged.

Colonialism was hardly an invention of the West, though it did take it to new highs/lows.

Inequality between countries and regions is probably linked to westernisation/globalisation, but to link this to population density seems odd. Australia has one of the largest land areas per capita in the world because much if it is uninhabitable, not because it is rich.

The author makes some valid points, but doesn’t argue support them very well.

And of course we should always ask the question “ 'dark history' … compared to what?”
Posted by Rhian, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 2:42:34 PM
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Perhaps the author should take a good hard look at the colonised countries in Africa and SE Asia now that the colonists have gone home. The governments have all disintegrated into corruption and chaos. I would challenge you to name one country where this has not happened.

David.
Posted by VK3AUU, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 2:50:38 PM
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I'm rather sceptical as to the degree that Western Civilisation's 'core values' are "Judaeo-Christian", the legacy of Classical civilisation is probably more important. The West experienced a thousand years of torpid Judaeo-Christian culture until the re-discovery of Classical civilisation during the Renaissance, seems more than a coincidence, and luckily Islam has had a minimal influence.

Rhian,

"And of course we should always ask the question “ 'dark history' … compared to what?”"

Yes, indeed and what of the present?

Western Imperialism doesn't really differ in any major qualitative degree from the Islamic, or Mongol variety for example, the West is just more efficient.
Posted by mac, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 4:11:43 PM
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So let me get this straight, you guys believe that all the world has bee traumatised by Western aggression even though the truth is that our people have been on the defensive against Islam and losing ground for 1400 years? Could it be that our people are actually the ones who are traumatised by the constant relentless attacks upon us? Could that be the real be the reason you're all so scared of the hearing truth? Could it be the case that resource starved European powers had to expand westward and southward because trade with the East via the Mediterranean and the Black Sea was impossible due to the predation of the Islamic caliphs and the fact that by the 10th century the soldiers of Allah had destroyed all the productive economies in the Near East?

Mac, the Golden Horde (Mongols) were Muslims from the 13th century, they were the ones who raped, pillaged and murdered their way across Eastern Europe, so no, no difference.
You'll notice that their successors still control all of the lands south of the Caucasus? So the terrible, awful European aggression into that area has been hopelessly ineffective and it's no wonder that the Russians and their neighbours are still terrified of Islam and why the Soviet Union and even the Nazis still Kowtowed to the Descendants of the Khans. (Fun fact:Kowtow means to prostrate oneself before the Khan and smack one's forehead on the floor hard enough to make a sound audible to the ruler)
As the video in my link clearly demonstrates, in 1400 years Europe has only had 120 years in total without a full blown Jihad being waged on it's borders, Islam is the religion of aggression 90% of the time and the religion of peace the other 10% of the time.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 5:15:47 PM
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Why is it assumed that examining the ‘dark’ side of the West’s history is an insult to Western civilisation?

In psychological terms, taking responsibility for one's own past mistakes and foibles is a sign of healthy maturity. Not so, it seems, when it comes to the collective psyche of civilisations. Most progressives have no problem reconciling the bad with the good in our past. It seems to be conservatives who fear and loathe historical self-criticism.

The more I view the dark side of Western history, the more I admire it - especially the resilience and human spirit of the West's common folk who stoically endured the relentless power struggles of their feudal warlords (and still do) ... and yet managed to hang onto their capacity to love, build communities, raise families and even be happy.
Posted by Killarney, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 6:28:19 PM
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The main point of this article is that western civilisation is not special.

Yes, they all do it (when they can): they all hate the other tribes, colonise, genocide, exclude, fight - that's just part of the human nature: apes with a bigger brain.

The solution is to keep society small, so harm is minimised and localised.

Dear David,

The curse of capitalism is the product of human greed: I wish we could discard it as "psychotic", but in fact it is completely normal as it serves the survival instincts of our genes and the competition for the "survival of the fittest". The dark side of civilisation is simply a reflection of the dark side of biology. Attempting to forcibly curb capitalism would only result in a different form of violence, fighting darkness with darkness: capitalism is unfortunately a price we must pay for freedom - true, many may be undeserving of freedom, but as laws are blind, having everyone free is the only way to keep free those few who do deserve it.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 6:40:51 PM
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Were the Western nations under attack from Islam when they invaded and colonized the Americas, the various Asian countries including India, Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific Islands and much of Africa. And later on when they carved up much of Africa in the late 19th century. Was King Leopold of Belgium defending the West against Islam when he brutalized Belgium? Were the Germans resisting Islam in South West Africa when they were exterminating the natives? Were the British resisting Islam when they were doing what is described in the book Britain's Empire by Richard Gott?

We now live in a Quantum world in which everything is instantaneously interconnected. As such we have no choice but to be completely honest about where the the humanly created world is at and how it came to be.
What does the name university imply?
Universal of course and not just one-dimensional Western provincialism.
It seems that some people want to retreat into a one-dimensional Western provincialism thereby turning universities into Western MIND FACTORIES.
They thus seem to object that Western universities should allow and promote comprehensive critical studies of every aspect of Western culture, religion, philosophy, history and its applied politics.

But good Western universities have quite rightly been doing these critical investigations for a long time now. Any serious person knows that there is something profoundly wrong with Western culture(in particular). Didnt the two World Wars and the history of the 20th century, especially in the last few decades tell us that.

My favorite Philosopher points out that a Real education should challenge and thus disavow you of all of your cultural provincialism. Challenge you to thoroughly investigate ALL of your culturally inherited presumptions about quite literally everything. He calls that process Zero Point Education.
Posted by Daffy Duck, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 7:11:57 PM
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Daffy, Strawman alert! You couldn't resist could you?
The author of this article is an apologist of Islam, it's a biased article intended to trick uneducated people into regarding Islam as the lesser of two evils by firstly leveling a charge of endemic anti Semitism at Western people then drawing an asociation between anti Semitism and Racism and colonialism.
You're playing along with his false proposition and casting Islam as just another victim of European aggression your strawman is the evil European colonist.
I've suggested that it's probably no coincidence that European powers started to expand into the New world and Africa during the period when Islam was literally "At the gates of Vienna", it's an explanation which fits the facts but it's not the whole story.
Genocide? Sorry, there's no such thing as genocide, Jewish Anti Fascist Raphael Lemkin invented the word in examining WW2 and it's only context is in the Anti Fascist narrative.
You mentioned the Herero "genocide", their population was estimated at 80,000 in 1905, today it's estimated at 240,000.How is that a "Genocide"?

The Belgian Congo lasted 52 years, the German African adventure was about 40 years, the poor old Italians only lasted four years and the British, the most benign rulers hung on until the mid 20th century.
The Moorish colony in Spain lasted for 700 years, the golden horde terrorised Europe for 300 years, the Ottomans followed and their descendants still hold onto areas of the Balkans to this day.
Europeans took an estimated 12 million Africans as slaves over a period of two hundred years and fought bloody wars to abolish slavery across India and Africa.
Muslims are still taking African Christians and Animists as slaves as we speak, nothing has changed.
See we're "guilty" of a brief, mostly benevolent adventure in colonialism which had a beginning and an end and which has been repudiated by all thinking Europeans.Islamic aggression and expansion has never let up, never repudiated it's slaving,colonialism mass murder and mayhem
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Tuesday, 4 February 2014 9:45:31 PM
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At this point in history the dark side of western civilisation is in suppremacy. The benefits of our evolutionary growth are huge, however the major beneficiaries are extremely few compared to the world's seven billion inhabitants. (stake holders in the planet's capacity to sustain LIFE). www.civilisationhijacked is an intro to the book "Civilisation Hijacked" that details the process whereby the one percent has gained control of the rest of us.
Posted by Albymo, Wednesday, 5 February 2014 5:58:13 AM
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No other groups have caused more harm than the religious & academic.
The decent in their midst are totally outnumbered.
Posted by individual, Wednesday, 5 February 2014 6:23:56 AM
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Moslems pirates from North Africa took about one million Europeans as slaves from the 8th century until the 19th--they raided English coastal towns for slaves in the 17th century, and the Ottomans enslaved millions of Eastern Europeans, they, like Africans, were victims of slavery on a massive scale. As to the conflict between Islam and the West, who started it? Not the Crusaders.

Jay,

I'd agree with your specific comments-

(1) that this article could be used as a propaganda piece, particularly if read by someone ignorant of history.

(2) the only significant contribution that Moslems have made to the West was to force Europeans to look for a sea route to East Asia
Posted by mac, Wednesday, 5 February 2014 8:58:35 AM
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Every civilization has its bright and dark sides. The worst of the dark side of western civilisation today is that it's descended into deceit and hypocrisy. Climate change denial is a large part of this new behavior. Unfortunately, its tentacles are spread far and wide, where the neo-converts are more dogmatic and vile than their masters, as I note in this filing from India. http://creative.sulekha.com/the-derailment-of-western-civilization-does-it-need-a-bail-out_371499_blog
Posted by CV, Wednesday, 5 February 2014 6:55:05 PM
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Namaste CV,
Welcome to the forum, I've been reading your blog for a few months; interesting.
Posted by Is Mise, Thursday, 6 February 2014 4:27:51 PM
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