Ours is an enlightened and tolerant, secular society.

Thank Christ religious leaders don't have authority over the secular institution of marriage. Religion causes wars and creates a negotiable system of "morality credits" making priests praying on children permissible.

I thing monogamous marriage (over 18) of any gender and sexuality is OK. Any objections should be grounded in secular law with particular attention to any harm caused.

I'm with you planty pete

marriage has mostly been fostered by religious nutjobs.

the ancient Hebrew bible regarded women and children as chattels. a good start.

the absolute nutjob Augustine, who's whole life was characterised by interpersonal and sexual dysfunctional relationships, wrote and formalised the Christian dogma surrounding marriage and sex in the 6th century.

the utterly mysognist Aquinas confirmed that stupid dogma in the 12 century

and if anyone disagreed they were deemed heretic's and burned at the stake.

naturally these circumstances have produced the dysfunctional marriage of the 20th century.

our divorce courts confirm that.

David G,
So in other words you don't have a position on this issue.
Candide,
Your response is typical of the well meaning Liberal who is forced to lower their head from the clouds and look directly at what Gay men actually say about themselves, how they behave and how they treat others..either that or you don't understand what Trolling is.

Dan, Runner,
Did you read the R.O.Lopez articles?
That's exactly my experience of working and socialising with Gay men, they're callous, very aggressive in their demands for sex, vain, dishonest and reckless with their own safety and that of others.
I worked for seven years in a restaurant where all of the senior staff were Gay men and about 75% of the staff overall were Gay, I was good friends with some of them and always had a ball when I'd go out after work but to a man they were nothing less than dirty sleazebags.
Now the sleaziness, the stealing, drug taking, dishonesty,hyper-machismo and constant sexual aggression take some getting used to but I was able to get past it. See that's the thing, if you choose to associate with Gay men you have to dispense with any expectations that they'll be reliable friends or be honest with you all the time. That's all I'm saying, Gays are tolerable if you can get over their many, many flaws but the portrayal of them as "normal" or "equal" comes from ignorance of what they actually are...and this is the perspective of a young man who was not sexually or emotionally involved in the Gay scene, I just hung out with them socially as work friends.
I was talking to my brother in law the other day about Gays and he said that working as a bouncer at the Gay bar (Bassline) in the now defunct Palace in St Kilda he got used to homosexual behaviour but he said, "They're OK guys but don't ever try to tell me they're normal, cos they're not"

Jay, your honesty about 'gays' is not reflected by them. There will be many of them who will be shocked by your words and observations.

Gays and lesbians are trying desperately to cover themselves and their bizarre sexual activities in a cloak of normalcy. That's why they want to be 'married' even if they make a mockery of the word in every sense of what marriage means.

Let same-sex adults live together if that is their choice. Let them be unobtrusive, blend in.

They don't have to push their non-normal behaviour down the throats of heterosexuals or turn the whole of society on its head.

Hi imajulianutter

Your knowledge of Roman Catholic history and philosophy is impressive.

While the current Pope is an improvement on most the use by the Vatican of religion as a tool of power projection into democratic secular society remains.

It always bothers me how the Romans, who were major oppressors of defenceless Jews and Christians, become the self-made custodians of Christian righteousness.

How can celibate, never married, old men influence who can or can't marry?

Regards

Pete

"I thing monogamous marriage (over 18) of any gender and sexuality is OK. Any objections should be grounded in secular law with particular attention to any harm caused."

Why monogamous, and why over 18? If the argument against the status quo is that it discriminates against gays, well? It also discriminates against polyamorous and people under 18 who want to "marry" [translation: register their sexual relationship with the government]. Whether other people think they should, or their sexuality is perverted, is beside the point, because the whole point of the argument for same-sex marriage is that it's no-one else's business but the parties.

But of course if that's the case, then there's no reason for government to register it. So the argument is either redundant, or it must apply equally to other sexualities.