Federal Minister Andrew Robb has stated;
"The Australian Government is not intending to sign up to international agreements that would restrict Australia's capacity to govern in our own interest - whether in the area of health care, investment or any other regulated area of the economy".

and, "The Government is considering the inclusion of Investor-State Dispute Settlement(ISDS) provisions in Free Trade Agreements (FTAs) on a case-by-case basis. Australia has ISDS provisions in place with 28 economies".

Already plain packaging legislation is being delayed in NZ and some European countries because of ISDS action against Australia's plain packaging legislation. That means that moves to protect citizens' health are being thwarted by big tobacco. Bayer is fighting European bans on products suspected of contributing to the die out of bees. And, in Quebec, a gas drilling company is seeking damages due to delayed approval of a fracking proposal because the government is concerned that overburden fracture may adversely affect the St Lawrence River.

The public does not need TPP agreements and ISDS procedures. These only have the potential to benefit mainly giant corporations.

Besides taking over our country lock, stock and barrel, the U.S. is doing its usual thing by setting up trade deals that screw us over and over and over.

We know from the NRS revelations that the States is the world's most secretive and duplicitous nation. Thank heavens for Snowdon and Assange!

But do the people of Australia care about Yank spying and imperialism? Not on your Nellie! No, the Yank-lovers just roll over and say, "Screw us over and over, Honey, you exceptional, larger-than-life Heroes!"

The is mass delusion in Australia. Look at who we recently elected to govern us. Our politicians of either persuasion are both stupid and blind. Australia is sinking beneath the waves of world relevance. We are seen as sport-addicted, coke-swilling, BigMuck-eating, midget Americans.

Let Real Australians stand up (if there are any left).

I'll be very frank; I ain't no ersatz, freakin' Yank!

It would have been more useful for we Aussies if there was less in this article about Canada and more about Australia.

This is the official Australian Government TPP website http://www.dfat.gov.au/fta/tpp/

If you wish to contact Australia's TPP negotiators try:

Email: tpp@dfat.gov.au

Mail:

Goods and Investment Branch
Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade
R.G. Casey Building
John McEwen Crescent
Barton ACT 0221

(02) 6261 2228

A Holiday public service from:

Pete

Truly appalling; this degree of secrecy; this degree of shoring up the interests of big corporations - against the interests of the voting public.

My daughter who lives in NY says don't go to a doctor there; it costs over well over $100 as do many pharmaceuticals we get here for about $30. Is that what we want here/

Surely this TPP is an election issue - the big parties are proving themselves no longer worthy of voter support when they ignore the big issues or try to keep them secret.

Is that what we want here/
Roses1,
It certainly looks that way.

I fail to find the 'great big secret' in this when there is a website freely available to view. No need for Snowden or Assange here I think. Refer to Plantagenet above.

Hi Pete, Nice of you to interrupt your holiday. Unfortunately, notwithstanding the obvious wishes of Prompete et al, going to the website is less than fruitful. The Australian government is less than forthcoming about the details of the terms of draft treaty. sure, they will tell you all the allegedly good things in store for us. But actually having the draft text to examine and critique? If you think they wish to be frank and open with the people who elected them and pay their wages I have a bridge to sell you.

On the basis of long and bitter experience I am profoundly suspicious when governments try to hide the detail from the people who are going to be most affected, i.e. us. It almost invariably means they are up to no good, and it is concern about the public reaction that leads to this secretive behaviour.

This is not of course without precedent. As recently as last October the government changed its voting pattern on Palestine/Israel issues in the UN, without so much as a press release.

The real beneficiaries of this Treaty will be the large corporations. On the basis of some leaked details we know that the Australian government will lose its ability to impose its own wishes in law where those conflict with the wishes of, for eg, big tobacco, the major pharmaceuticals, and others.

As long as governments (and this includes the present mob's unlamented predecessors) work on the mushroom growing principle of keeping us in the dark and feeding us on BS our very democracy is under threat. Unfortunately, the sheeple seems unconcerned. They should read Bonhoeffer's letters from prison to see the dangers of that course of inaction.

Slowly some are realising that we live in a demockracy. Both Labor and Liberal are owned by large corporate interests. It does not matter who you vote for,since they will screw you equally.

Well it isn't going to get any better.http://cecaust.com.au/ There is concrete evidence for a Cyprus style confiscation of bank deposits planned.

Our banks are not safe because they have a gambling derivative exposure of 6 times their assets. Only a few elites will do well out of this collapse.

Likewise I am very suspicious of this treaty.
I have read one part of it but the language and references to other
documents made it indecipherable.

However it all looks similar to the G20's setting up of the "Financial Stability Board".
You haven't heard of it ? I am not surprised, it is almost secret.
Remember the problem in Cyprus about a year ago.
Well the G20 and the IMF arranged for the Cyprus banks to seize the
depositors funds to pay the banks debt to bond holders.
It was such a success the G20 last January in St Petersburg moved to
have all G20 countries adopt it as a policy.
Wayne Swan attending as Australian Treasurer agreed and signed Australia up to it.
Next Month in Brisbane the G20 will confirm the policy and formally
install the Financial Stability Board to arrange the seizure of depositors funds when and as required.

You haven't heard of that either have you ?
Notice a trend here that is common to both parties ?
In Chronological order:

1. The Australian Bureau of Infrastructure, Resources and Environment
Lodges on its web site a report to Government Security of Future
Energy Supplies Report 117. Next morning it is gone. Not to be released.

2. Negotiations of the Trans Pacific Treaty documents restricted.
3. G20 & IMF negotiations and agreement made not news even though,
or because taxpayers bank deposits may be seized.

The behaviour of all parties is uniform, do not mention or discuss
and if forced just deny any problem as nonsense.

I think it is time to have a parliament of non politicians or is
that a contradiction of terms ?

Hi James O'Neill

I share your suspicions and misgivings.

Regards and Happy New Year

Pete

It seems that many forum contributors who usual disagree are agreeing that the Trans Pacific deal is a very bad deal for all of us non corporations.
The question is: What can be do about it and what are we going to do about it?
Politicians, who many of us believe are elected to represent their electorates turn out to represent political parties and corporations,this has been the case for many years.
Accepting political donations (bribes?) from non electors is very hard to justify but does show who is making the rules.

It would seem that anyone signing away our national interests might fall under the following definition:

"treason

betrayal of country: a violation of the allegiance owed by somebody to his or her own country, e.g. by aiding an enemy."

High Court case?

What Jonathan J. Ariel (JJA) and most other conspiracy theorists ignore when posting alarmist articles like this is that the TPP is something that the US is trying to push, and so far is being ignored by the rest of the 12 countries it hopes to include.

The document so far thus only includes items that the US wants on the agenda with none of the compromises, deletions or concessions that a negotiated document would include, and unsurprisingly is biased towards the US. It is also extremely unlikely to bear much resemblance to the final document if it ever gets up.

According to the government's website :

" Australia's decision to participate in the TPP in 2008 followed an extensive public consultation process. Overall, there was widespread interest in and support for Australia's participation in the TPP. Input received through the consultation process is being used to inform the Government's priorities and objectives for Australia's ongoing work on the TPP."

Now, you would think that you would remember that extensive public consultation wouldn't you ?

Yes Wantok, it is very true, they only say there was consultation.
I would like to see someone with access to ask when and where was the
consultation ?
I would suggest that they asked everybody in the Minister's office.

This is typical as I indicated in an earlier post on this thread that
very serious matters are agreed upon by treaty and goes through the
parliament in the middle of the night.

There is nothing more certain that one or other of our banks will get
into serious financial trouble.
Where are you going to hide your money before the Financial Stability Board comes for your money ?

The active hiding of the ABIRE's report 117 only got out because a
journalist in Paris downloaded it during the night our time before
the PMs office saw it the next morning and panicked.
This is typical of what is happening in government. I had hoped the
new government would be different but it looks like the Financial
Stability Board will go ahead in Brisbane this month at the G20.
Labour signed us up for it, and the Libs look like confirming it.

Hi Bazz and Wantok

If you want info from the Government as to the state of TPP negotiations the relevant Minister is:

The Hon Andrew Robb AO MP, Minister Trade and Investment

His Office Phone is: (02) 6277 7420

Just call and provide a Comment on this thread regarding how you went - especially if his office staffers try to flick you to the DFAT address already mentioned.

The info above was on the open Internet at http://trademinister.gov.au/releases/2013/ar_mr_131211.html

Another handy holiday public consultation suggestion.

Pete

Plantagenet, I have actually read part of the draft that someone had
accessed but it was unreadable. By making reference to other documents
and to unreleased parts of the draft it was meaningless.

Also it needs someone who has experience in decyphering the bureaucratese.

Of more immediate interest and haven't they been quiet about the G20
this month in Brisbane approving and appointing the Financial Stability Board.
They will then be ready to seize YOUR money if your bank gets into
financial trouble so the bank can pay its creditors.
I have read the documents setting up the board and as an IMF/G20
document it is easy to read and understand.
GOOGLE produces a number of references to the FSB.

Hi Bazz

I agree its hard to get a handle on the TPP and our Government's approach to the ongoing negotiations is a disservice to Australians.

I can't claim to understand the financial system-banking changes involved with the TPP.

One crack of light in the intentionally opaque process occurred in Nov 2013 concerned patents and our PBS medications scheme http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/medicine-prices-could-rise-under-transpacific-partnership-deal-20131113-2xh0r.html:

"Australians are likely to face price rises for their medicines in coming years if intellectual property proposals contained in the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement go ahead.

The leaked treaty reveals a range of measures that would enhance the ability of drug companies to extend and widen patents on drugs."

Looks like the public will have to continue to rely on leaks...

Pete

Despite the negative nature of my comments about the TPP, on reflection DFAT is probably doing its best in a difficult position with few staff. The travel requirements look onerous.

DFAT's website http://www.dfat.gov.au/fta/tpp/ is comprehensive and helpful.

The multi-sectoral nature of the negotiations, involving many countries and many considerations, involves a fair bit of necessary confidentiality.

A worthy Biz :)

Pete

Plantagenet said,
I can't claim to understand the financial system-banking changes involved with the TPP.

Not sure if I confused two issues to you.
The G20 Financial Stability Board has nothing to do with the TPP.
It is a separate matter being set up to "legalise" the seizure of
bank depositors funds.

Thanks Bazz

Pete