So the new progressive party should directly empower people and revolutionise traditional power structures including the State, at the same time as it reserves to the State the same old monopoly power it always claims and used to use physical violence and threats to force the people to obey on every transaction involving carbon or that might conceivably affect "the environment", in other words, the State and mere power should have priority over personal liberty and property in everything?

Nick, can you see how that's confused and self-contradictory?

What the self-styled progressives keep on not being able to answer is precisely how they distinguish themselves from totalitarians and fascists. Yes I know you think you've got a halo and you're hip. But *how* is your belief any different from totalitarians and fascists, because you believe, don't you, that:
- rights are whatever the state says they are
- the state has a presumptive right to control any and every human activity
- the state has a right to enforce its laws and policies with physical force and threats of force
- the state should manage the economy
- the whole population should be compelled to attend indoctrination the content, time, place and teaching of which should be dictated by the state
- decision of the state do and should automatically override decisions of the people?

"Fascism is for liberty. And for the only liberty which can be a real thing, the liberty of the State and of the individual within the State. Therefore, for the fascist, everything is in the State, and nothing human or spiritual exists, much less has value, outside the State."
Mussolini

Nick, whenever I ask other progressives how their views on the legitimate limits of government power, differ from those of totalitarians and fascists, they just go quiet, and I suspect it's because they can't identify any difference.

Can you? What are they?

I consider it highly amusing that the far Left consider themselves to be 'Progressives '

Legends in their own collective Minds more likely,

It been a long , dismal, trip from Marxism to our own Watermelon Party

Jardine,
Fascism is a modernising, ie "progressive" school of thought, in practice all forms of collectivism, from theocracy to syndicalism devolve into the same miserable totalitarianism.
Collectivism equals hills of dead bodies and state goons on every corner snarling "papers please", doesn't matter if the shirts are red, black or the now fashionable green.

Of course we need a new political force. The two we have are two centuries out of date!

Workers Vs Bosses, what pathetic nonsense in 2013!

We are caught in the capitalist trap: workers and taxpayers Vs the money-hungry elite.

The capitalist trap divides us, diverts us, limits our life choices. Now they're talking about us working 'till 70 as if working was the only important thing we can do with our lives.

Workers are little more than programmed slaves who exist to make the rich mega-rich!

Time we woke up, did other things with our short lives other than work.

Capitalism is a Con, much like religion!

It's time we were free to enjoy our lives in whatever way we want: some work, some free time to explore our talents, some time for adventure and exploration, some time for our kids, etc.

This site is a continual delight in examples of human self-indulgence and stupidity. David G says:

"The capitalist trap divides us"

Capitalism at base is the expression of enterprise and the freedom to express one's creativity or initiative for economic and other benefit.

There is no lacuna between workers and bosses in capitalism because in a free society workers have a right to be rewarded for their labour.

Capitalism gets a bad name through corruption and cronyism; these cankers on the social fabric are invariably caused by progressive interference with the capitalist model.

For instance the GFC was caused by Clinton's interference with the mortgage agencies Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae which were nothing more than progressive instruments to enable an ideological interference with the mortgage process.

Aided and abetted by government approved parasite organisations like Goldman Sachs which developed Ponzi derivative structures the whole edifice set off a chain reaction.

David G wants to be free; well throw off your clothes and discard the other symbols of your enslavement by capitalism, like houses, cars and the social infrastructure and stride into the wilderness.

Don't forget to write.

Is it time for a new progressive party?

Ah, no.
It's time progressivism was staked through the heart and covered in concrete.
No more Utopias, please.

It's time for a realist, classical liberal, nationalist party.