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The Forum > Article Comments > Climate effects will knock on > Comments

Climate effects will knock on : Comments

By Kellie Tranter, published 1/10/2013

Australia should be paying close attention to the estimated trajectory of likely warming and its impact on both Australia and our Asian neighbours.

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JF Aus: "Spurious claims about CO2 are already knocking-on via virtual brainwashing. For example religion-like CO2 believers are failing to properly consider and debate whetheror not there could really be another or more major cause of AGW."

I've tried to help Hasbeen see the wood for the trees, but you deniers just line up one after one with the same claims. It doesn't matter what evidence is put before you you just look past it. I gave several sites where the evidence for CO2 based warming is displayed and discussed. I gave two sites where you may get your questions answered about whatever brain-storming counter-idea you want dealt with, including:

"And algae is known to have warmth retaining capabilities, yet the IPCC has not measured it."

My guess without researching further, which you can equally do, is that algal growth is a symptom, not a cause of GW. See http://www.skepticalscience.com/Pacific-Decadal-Oscillation.htm

The IPCC doesn't measure this, it is the research institutions that do and the IPCC brings it together with its conclusions. There may well be information on your question that is taken into the conclusions, or there may not. How about finding out? Meanwhile unequivocal IPCC conclusions stand correct until they're smashed down by irrefutable evidence and logic.

You are of the view that there are worse things than AGW, fine, but that doesn't mean we forget about it. It won't nicely and easily disappear while we do something about those things.

"I expect the government leader to lead." Without involving yourself you can't to expect anything. The government is us.
Posted by Luciferase, Monday, 7 October 2013 9:30:42 AM
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Luci,
Some people are unable to see the trees because they live in another world, like in skyscrapers fed by CO2 politics in news media.
I am not a denier of AGW but I am a skeptic/denier of the cause being CO2 emissions. Yes air pollution is a problem.

Straight after you posted the link I asked a question on that “climate rapid response” site but as yet have no answer. I think there will be some rapid conversations today to find words for an answer.
I will keep you posted.

What scientific evidence do you have to prove algae is a symptom of GW and not a cause?

IPCC science involves measurement of atmosphere. The science measures oxygen and CO2 links to trees and heat trapped in buildings and roadways so surely measurements should include warmth in ocean algae plant matter.
Crikey, ocean produces more than 50% of world oxygen so surely everything to do with ocean algae plant matter should be measured and assessed, including warmth. But I can find no indication of the latter, can you?
It is logical all plant matter on this planet be assessed. Land plant matter is even assessed when being chewed in cud.

IPCC science is incomplete, I think grossly incomplete if photosynthesis-linked warmth in ocean algae plant matter has not been measured and assessed. I see no evidence whatsoever it has been, but I do see CO2 nonsense trading linked to public money collection schemes.

Government leaders are paid a considerable income with numerous perks, to lead government including productively.
Evidence indicates that solutions to ocean problems could be very productive.
Posted by JF Aus, Monday, 7 October 2013 1:28:47 PM
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Luci you are such a joke, trying to help who? The gravy train riders, & the ratbag green fringe dwellers are the only ones on your help list.

You are obviously reading only from the same hymn book as our ladies.

You obviously have not read much of the IPCC's latest offering. Hidden here & there is a little of the truth. No warming for 15 years. Nothing dangerous likely this centaury. They are obviously retreating from their full stupidity, hoping to get on another government funded gravy train, if they can avoid being buried when this garbage collapses.

It must be a bit of a problem when your high priests abandon their useful idiots, but some of you will probably survive. If you do, it will be as a wiser idiot, & perhaps less useful to the fraudsters next time.

Good luck.
Posted by Hasbeen, Monday, 7 October 2013 4:00:14 PM
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Luciferace,

The following is the question I asked yesterday, 7 Oct 2012, after your suggestion to look into the link:
http://climaterapidresponse.org/
(copied and pasted)
Has AGW-IPCC science measured and assessed photosynthesis-linked warmth in sewage and naturally proliferated ocean micro and macro algae plant matter?
(end copy)

This morning 8 Oct 2013 I received the following reply via email:
Quote:
The IPCC certainly addresses GHG emissions from sewage treatment and algae growth but I'm pretty certain the IPCC report does not deal with warmth in sewage. I hope that answers your question.
(end quote)

I have replied with this:
(quote)
No, your reply does not answer my question.
You should address the wording of my question.
I have not asked about warmth is sewage.
My question is about warmth in ocean algae.
Please answer the perhaps inconvenient question accordingly.
(end quote)

Cheers
JF Aus
Posted by JF Aus, Tuesday, 8 October 2013 7:56:42 AM
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Hasbeen, you're on a new track (since you were caught out on your old one) with: "You obviously have not read much of the IPCC's latest offering. Hidden here & there is a little of the truth. No warming for 15 years. Nothing dangerous likely this centaury."

You really haven't had a look at AR5 have you? I've had my fill of your baseless unscientific assertions supposedly deriving from it, so I direct you to http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/uploads/WGIAR5_WGI-12Doc2b_FinalDraft_TechnicalSummary.pdf where you find reference to all the science underlying IPCC conclusions. You you can also find sites that spell the science in layman's terms, such as http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/index.php?id=40&tx_naksciinterview_pi1%5BshowUid%5D=643&cHash=7faa6cce3f&table=tx_naksciinterview_interviews

JF Aus, I do think your first question to http://climaterapidresponse.org/ was a little ambiguous and your follow-up response was terse and I wouldn't be surprised if your communication has ended. Please let us know if you do receive a further response.

As far as what science exists to support or falsify your algal hypothesis, I know of none off the top of my head and do not think it incumbent upon me to find any. AFAIK, algae grows from spores, photosynthesises and dies, yielding up methane (many times GH affective than carbon dioxide). This may interest you http://www.theguardian.com/environment/earth-insight/2013/jul/31/artic-methane-catastrophe-empirical-evidence
Posted by Luciferase, Tuesday, 8 October 2013 11:12:07 PM
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Luciferase,
I agree my question was a little ambiguous but that does not mean it was ambiguous. Does it?
Do I need to explain in the question that sewage is a fertilizer because it contains nutrients?
Clearly I did not say sewage is warm and of course it is not. Accordingly my response was sharp and to the point, and it was correct.
If communication has ended with http://climaterapidresponsse.org/ , does that mean warmth in ocean algae has ended? Not likely.
I will re word and re submit the question and keep you posted here on OLO.

As for science to support whether algae retains warmth, much science from years past is not yet online. But let’s not be pedantic.
Try taking two equal containers and filling one with clean water and one with algae inundated water, bring both to the boil in equal position and allow to cool.
Which one will (likely) take longer to cool?
Or experiment with a cup of pea soup v/s a cup of clean water.

The Guardian is likely aware of algae under Arctic Ice because I for one have asked them the question about algae warmth. Their science advisors would likely be in the know.
From comments at the Guardian link it is possible to see that authors/scientists online seem to not yet be aware of the amount of alive and dead algae in Arctic waters and “possible” photosynthesis-linked warmth in living algae.

I think you will find algae will knock on climate debate.

News f.y.i.
Kachamek Bay is close to the Bering Sea, I would say upstream from Bering Sea waters, downstream from the heavily populated US coast and rivers that have water quality and algae problems. Flotsam from Fukushima has reached western Pacific coast via wind driven surface waters.
Q. So how new and how much algae is there now worldwide?
N.B. at:
http://homertribune.com/2013/10/whats-that-brown-algae-floating-in-kachemak-bay-%E2%80%A2-no-complete-answer-yet-science-takes-a-back-seat-to-politics-during-this-time-of-government-shutdown/
Algae four of five feet deep.
Never seen such an outbreak.
And guess what, not allowed to study it even voluntarily. Why is that so
Posted by JF Aus, Wednesday, 9 October 2013 8:05:49 AM
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