Poirot--

<I never said it was a choice between, the hippie lifestyle
and 4or5 cars in the Drive way.>

My point was, that when there are so many mouths and human bodies
needing food, housing and all the rest of it,urgently! your ideas about scraping industrialization
and using natural methods(hippie ideas)to sustain the 7billion people on earth,
just can't be done quickly enough or efficiently enough. And I also made the point
that you, me the Greens or anybody from developed countries has
absolutely no power over China and India and other Asian countries.
Why you think we do, baffles me.

Therefore, even your ideas of moderation aren't going to be adopted
by these countries. If you think consumerism is the problem, then
these countries are the major source of today's consumers.

China, was recently the major consumer of our coal. Coal, the
big Carbon producing monster so feared by the Greenies.
I presume China is going to burn and use this huge amount of coal to provide for their people and industries.
Again what China does is pretty much beyond our control. No stopping industrialization there.

Antiseptic,
I know the history of how women were treated
and I witnessed it in marriages around me too, when I was
growing up in the years before the 1970's.

I am totally unrepentant in what I said.
Men no longer have the control over women that was once built
into society and the marriage contract. And they can't hack it
poor dears. Women had to put up with much tougher lives than
men have today, when they were not even allowed the vote etc. only difference being they were made of tougher stuff and didn't have the luxury of committing suicide because they had 8 to 14children hanging off their skirts and depending on them for their every need.

Today's men, doing it tough, don't make me laugh.

.