Poirot-
I understand your point about industrialization. But it is going
to take a long time to put that genie back in the bottle. too long!.

What I could deduce from what I read of your article link-- is that a lot Of Liberian Logging Companies backed up by Asian companies are exploiting the Forests in Liberia. Malaysia was also mentioned.
Asian companies being the stand out fact to me, in this article.

These are big population countries needing constant access to more and more resources to sustain their burgeoning populations on a day to day, year by year, lifetime, basis.

I don’t like your chances or any Western countrys chances of persuading these countries and their people to refuse resources that help sustain them and make their lives better. They’ll probably just tell us to butt out. Or nod politely take our aid money and do just what the hell they want anyway.
You can always back the horse called self interest.

They just can’t die or go back to poverty stricken lives while they wait for some idealistic well-fed greenies or Westerners to convert things over to so called sustainable consumerism.

Going back to a hippie commune lifestyle may sound wonderfully
idyllic, and be longed for like some nostalgic memory from a
a rustic farmhouse picture book but that picture book doesn't
show the dark, cruel side of living with nature.

"He who sits on the lid of progress shall be blown to pieces"
the above is a quote from Henry J. Kaiser.
By the way, that progress in my mind also applies to the contraceptive pill and modern methods of contraception as well.

You can't go back to a supposed idyllic form of life because it is long gone, and if you try and stuff progress back in the box it will only keep pushing the lid from different places all over the world until it jumps free again. People can't unlearn what they already know.

Cherful:"would you like to have no money at all of your own(that’s none, not a cent anywhere in your name) and then be homeless on the street if your wife or partner decided to abuse you and kick you out."

Been there, done that Cherful. In fact, for 10 of the last 13 years I've had my Government doing its best to ensure I not only had no money, but no opportunity to earn any and no right to collect any kind of benefit. I have no super other than what I have collected during the last 2 years, after I managed to beat some parts of the system off.

In that time my ex-wife has been given housing, legal aid, access to education that I was denied and a Government job with as much time off as she wanted to go to court to try to get more out of me, while I was forced tpo self-represent because I couldn't even operate a bank account without having the money taken from it. She is presently purchasing a former public house that she has lived in for the past 12 years. For 8 of the past 12 years I have lived in a tin shed, which was my business premises. I had to be self-employed because when I was employed the Government took so much of my income that I could not pay rent or feed myself.

Forgive me if I don't buy into your one-sided, genderised view of the matter. Frankly, you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

In fact, it's stupid self-satisfied nincompoops like you that have caused a great deal of trpouble for this country and are directly responsible for 1000s of good men killing themselves.

At least they're not "controlling women" eh?

Idiot!

Sorry for the OT post folks, I'm afraid something nasty crawled out of the toilet.

Cherful,

So is it a choice between a hippie lifestyle at one end of the spectrum, and houses with four or five cars sitting in the driveway at the other?

All I've ever called for is moderation.

(I sometimes wonder why I bother with this forum)

Poirot,

"So is it a choice between a hippie lifestyle at one end of the spectrum, and houses with four or five cars sitting in the driveway at the other?"

No, actually. Like it or not, that entire spectrum of choices is - or should be - available to everybody. If you want to live in a cave, on roots and berries, go ahead. If you want to scrabble and scrimp and have five poncy cars in the driveway and a heated pool, and a whatever, go for it. As long as you don't trample over anybody to get it. That's democratic capitalism - the worst form of life except for every other form known to humankind.

You make your choices, Poirot, and let other people make theirs. You and I may not like those choices, but it's not our God-like decision to make. They have as much right to choose as you do. So go for it, cave and berries and all.

Sans internet.

Cherrs :)

Joe

Hasbeen--- <She is presently purchasing a former public house that she has lived in for the past 12 years. For 8 of the past 12 years I have lived in a tin shed, which was my business premises. I had to be self-employed because when I was employed the Government took so much of my income that I could not pay rent or feed myself the money taken from it.>

I would presume your wife was given public housing because she had children who needed a roof over their heads. She didn’t even have a tin shed on a piece of ground like you did as a roof over her head.

That’s much better than the first half of the 20th century, where the wife and children had literally nowhere to go, not even a tin shed on a piece of property, whilst the men stayed in the oversized family home,
Welcome to the situation women found themselves in for centuries and still endure in many countries around the world today. Not pleasant is it? when you end up penniless, homeless and unsupported by society. Welcome to the world of women for thousands of years. I have no sympathy.

Actually, Cherful, she had the proceeds of the divorce and was living in a nice 3 bedroom home until she decided it was all too much effort to work to support that, so she applied for public housing.

I've been through all this here many times. I suggest you pull your head out of the dark, dirty place it's parked and do some reading before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

On second thoughts, why fight nature, leave it where it looks best