Don Allen,

you state that “it saddens me to see Australia a country that boasts of its commitment to social freedom treating the boat people as slaves were treated in centuries past, a commodity to be traded. Yet this is what Mr Rudd is doing, trading them to PNG to avoid settling them in Australia”.

First, countries in our region (maybe not so much small ones like PNG, but those like Indonesia, Malaysia, even Japan) have absolutely no problem morally or otherwise with not allowing refugees into their nations on mass, this is precisely why ALL the refugees come through these nations and onto Australia. Why don’t the Don Aliens etc. focus some of this blame and moral responsibility guilt on Indonesia, Malaysia, and especially South Korea and Japan for not only not doing their share but quite simply not caring at all about the plight of persecuted persons, leaving nations such as Australia (in this region) to take them ALL.

Further, since we do and have taken ALL of immigrants and refugees in the last 60 years, causing our demographic make-up to change from being 95% Anglo in 1950s to somewhere around just over 40% Anglo heritage today, how can it not be expected and also tolerated as morally understandable that some Anglos [likely the ones whom live with the newcomers] may have some reservations about changing our demographic makeup too much because this will inevitably change the cultural environment also, and as even Don Allen mentions, even PNG will have culture shocks and possible tension with very “different” cultures [e.g. Muslims] – see the paragraph below”

“Without disrespect to PNG let me ask a few questions. How will PNG settle the asylum seekers many of whom, but not all, will be Sunni Muslims from Iran? Will they have a mosque? Will the detention camps become religious battlegrounds where missionaries of various Christian sects will fight each other to convert them?”

You say: “More important, because they are being incarcerated on Manus Island at the behest of Australia will they develop a slow, festering hate of Australia? If so it could create difficulties in the future between PNG and Australia. “

Why would a people who are supposed to be fleeing persecution, fleeing for their very lives, grow to hate the nation (the only nation in either this region or even including any of the wealthy Muslim Gulf states) to provide them with any kind of help, unless they were ungrateful or not really refugees but simply shopping around for a better culture and economic environment in which to live? I would imagine (if I were Muslim especially) that they would develop a severe hatred and animosity towards their own culture/people who regardless of having more wealth than many western nations like Australia, still have no care to help them, their own Muslim cousins/brothers.

If these people do grow to hate us as seems to be the case considering the many detention centre riots etc., then I would argue that the people behaving like this are brats acting out a baby tantrum to attempt to get what they want – win the cultural lotto by getting Australian citizenship. And the leftists such as Don Allen are to blame, since they actively encourage and seek to help them with all their political might and even have both themselves and even the “brats” believing that their actions are moral and completely justified and understandable.

Why is it that only Western white nations (North-West European nations and colonies) are supposed to take control and be morally bound to help these “economic migrants” (clearly since, like with the Timorese who when set up temporarily in tents during the independence move and they did not complain, whilst at the same time some Kosovar migrants were protesting and complaining about not having enough heaters per room, or that the toilets were too far to walk to, indicating that they obviously came from something more than the horror and squalor we are always being told of.

So it would seem that according to the Don Allens and other leftists, "white man" is ultimately the only adult people on the planet, responsible for all ultimately. All the PNGs and Chinas, Indonesias and even somehow Japans, are just children and thus have no proper moral compass, and this must be why when one reads closely between any lines of a leftist argument regarding culture and responsibility etc., the clear assumption is always that no coloured peoples have the capacity such that the leftist considers them to be (as both individuals and as a culture/nation) responsible and grown up enopugh so that the leftist can say to Indonesians: "why is your government and your citizens so immoral in their disregard for people who may be fleeing persecution, and why doesn't your nation/peoples do your share to help deal with the problem?

“At the same time will PNG be able to offer them the same job opportunities they could expect in Australia? Will children also enjoy the same educational opportunities? What kind of health service will they get? Will it be free, if not how will they pay for it? Other questions also spring to mind: will they ever be entitled to vote? And, apart from language difficulties how will they cope with an environment of which they have no experience?

And that’s only the tip of the iceberg. The difficulties they will face crossing cultural bridges in PNG will be greater than the difficulties they would ever face in Australia. I also think many Papua New Guineans will think the deal another form of Australian colonialism”.

Apparently PNG natives would be justified to consider forced immigration into their nation as “colonialism”, yet whenever any natives of a North-Western European nation (e.g. UK, Sweden, Denmark) make even a hint of a remark in a negative tone towards mass migration and the extreme demographic changes that have already occurred and still occurring in their native homelands, these people are branded right-wing bigots, Nazis, racists, stupid, hate-filled, etc. For some reason only non-white nations can legitimately complain and still remain moral.

Regarding the comments from Don Allen that indicates he believes we should provide refugees with western standard everything, education, medical, etc.:

why do leftists focus so much time, energy and our nations political resources [tax dollar] on making sure that refugees in detentions centres have proper medical care etc. (which probably is more than what an average Australian on the dole can get, for instance one cannot access psychiatrists in NSW for free unless they are committed to an insitution for madness, also an unemployed person is given only very basuc dental care such as extractions and fillings) I bet refugees in detention centres have access to pychiatrists as well as psychologists, proper and full dental care. Worst of all, in our society unless one is either wealthy or has assets worth at least 500,000 it is basically not possible to conduct civil procedures no matter how justified, yet refugees do not just get useless legal Aid solicitiers with little concern for doing proper work as is all that a citizen is given if criminally charged; the best QCs etc. represent refugees pro bono to help them do things such as sue the government for keeping them detained 2 days more than allowed, and other immoral suits.

Why doesn't Don Allen devote even just a quarter of that enenrgy towards helping to fix our homeless problems and mental illness problem (often both go together), make sure that all these [usually white males] have beds, proper food, legal access, medical access etc.?

Oh that's right, classist bigots (which is what leftists are essentially) hate poor white people, they absolutely despise them visciously, calling them "bogans" etc. and mocking their opinions when sometimes they may voice frustrations towards some of the cultural clashes that Don admits will occur in PNG (but he only says it with an apology first), dismissing them as stupid, angry, retarded, racist etc. Why does this so-called "bogan" group get so mistreated?

Moiteeki. Thank you for spelling out Don's wrongheadedness. Personally, I find this controversy most distressing. All my long political life, I have been proud to be "Left", fighting on behalf of the underdog. Now, the noisy advocates of "let them all in" would destroy the society workers have fought for- yet, they are identified as "leftists".

Don Allan-- <However, if the cost of the deal is high to start with and clouds of uncertainty start to gather around it and if costs increase later,
Mr Rudd will need a better excuse than the increased costs are the result of unintended consequences>

What about the cost of the endless stream of boat people coming here year after year,3,000 last month, 3,000 the month before?
It is already costing a fortune to house these people, provide
for their medical and dental care, plus the dole which some have been on for years since they got here.

Once they are barred from coming to Australia they will simply stop coming. No more expense.

There may be an expensive, initial set up cost and pay- off to PNG, but once the boats stop coming the
financial cost will stop too, unlike if they keep heading to Australia the way they are now. I heard the people smugglers
were charging boat people $4.000, multiply that by 3.000 people a month and that equates to $12,000 a month,
to those on the take in Indonesia and you can bet those on the take are not just the drug smugglers but all the officials
that have to be paid a kick-back to turn a blind eye.

What does worry me though is the the fact that there is only a 4km stretch of sea from the the tip of Australia
to some of the islands off New Guinea. A Pity the distance wasn’t further.
The Australian navy will really have to keep a strong survelliance in that area.

I guess they do keep a strong radar watch on those areas as part of Australias Defence,anyway.
Given that the distance is so close and the pay off to officials by boat people is so lucrative it could be a problem.