In summary of my above post re: the execution of Jesus

Jesus was executed because he was a serious threat to the
Romans, because he was a charismatic leader, remember the
thousands that attended his sermon on the mount. Leaders
like that can cause men to rise up in revolution.

He was also a threat to the power and money raising activities
of the local Jewish priests. It was they who chose him to die instead of the thief, remember Pilate gave them the choice.

It was no act of God that caused Jesus to be executed but the
self interests of men.

And once again we see the contemporary Christian's most common failing: the deliberate confusion of 'we' and 'I'. I can think about truth and justice perfectly well; if YOU can't, Peter, that's YOUR problem. You may 'limp along in liberalism'; I don't. You may be 'eternally directed towards the self': I am not. Why do you feel this desperate urge to generalise your own failings and inadequacies by projecting them on to everyone else? Is it to do with your extensive training in the most effective ways to inculcate guilt and self-loathing in others?

There are some excellent elementary grammar books available which explain the correct use of pronouns: I suggest you consult one.

Peter,
>> Atheists … insist that God can only be conceived as a supernatural being …. Framed in this way it is obvious that God is conceived as a part of nature <<

A “supernatural being” conceived as “a part of nature”?

>> truth that pertains to human existence and thriving<<

This is language incomprehensible outside the religious, even Christian, context. There are good reasons why for instance theoretical physicists and philosophers of science do not like to speak about truth, except in formal (logic, mathematics) or everyday situations, where its meaning is obvious.

I think you have got many good (and some not-so-good) points in your article. However, judging from the reactions you could have anticipated, don’t you think this is not the way to present your views to a mostly atheist, even anti-Christian, readership here, if you want to be understood?

That was a sly little dig, George, and quite unnecessary.

>>...a mostly atheist, even anti-Christian, readership here...<<

I don't see any significant level of anti-Christian sentiment here, except in the strictest sense that Mr Sellick professes to be a Christian, and many people here object to his increasingly desperate generalizations, non-sequiturs, self-contradictions and simple misrepresentations.

Of which this article is chock-full. You picked the first blunder yourself, pointing out that he treats "supernatural" and "natural" as synonyms. But there are many more, as you are smart enough to recognize, which must disappoint you enormously.

But there's no need to take a swing at us atheists to vent your frustration. Mr Sellick is your problem, not us.

Pericles,

Well, I am not going to argue with you whether the majority of contributors who discuss matters pertaining to religion on this OLO are theists or atheists, more Christians than anti-Christian or the other way around.

Also, I try to take your contributions on their face value - agreeing, disagreeing or no-commenting - without assigning them a need “to vent your frustration” over whatever. Neither would I claim to know what “must disappoint you enormously”.

I think this difference between our styles carries more weight in these discussions than who is a theist and who an atheist.

There should be no discussion at all. Religion is a figment of human imagination and wishful thinking, a Santa Klaus proposition which has found favor with the brain-dead and crowds of opportunistic fraudsters.

How can you discuss what doesn't exist? How can you base your life upon ancient scrolls written in a time when most people believed in superstition and ghosts and devils and witches, etc.

How can sane, so-called intelligent humans debate religious issues that are entirely without evidence, none!

How can frauds like Sells be allowed to lie and deceive without punishment? How can religious institutions brainwash innocent kids, fill their minds with theological nonsense and fears, present them with promises that can never be realized?

Humanity is caught in a pre-historic time warp and religious people and institutions capitalize on it. They bleed the flock and trick them as they have always done.

Folks, it's time to rid our minds of all religion. Perhaps then we can rise above believing in divisive fairy tales and become realists who work towards making our mortal lives as pleasant and happy as possible.

God is dead. A new age beckons!