Curious tactics used by anti immigration and anti population growthers who are very certain of their own views or beliefs to the point of arrogance, but none can provide concrete clear evidence of direct causal links between e.g. Australia's environment (+ every other issue they raise) and foreigners who are not even in the country...... the likes of Birrell etc., according to Bob Carr "Australia's best demographer", have some interesting approaches to their research, which will always be negative re. non European foreigners......

The first reaction is to attack the messenger through smear, innuendo, denigration etc., and if an expert, reduce their authority, to keep their own philosophy and preferred "information sources" from closer scrutiny (seee end of comment). This is exactly what cults do though to be fair to John Tanton et al they don't resort to litigation but continue to push their beliefs even harder (and sometimes more surreptitiously)....

Other features include grassroots actions such as flooding comments forums with fellow travellers to attack critics (while appearing to be independent of each other), setting up self referencing and commendations from each other, digressing e.g. inserting long text about something off topic, accessing mainstream media and promoting misleading or distorted e.g. immigration data (+ US flooding congressman with faxes etc.).

Further, in the USA, Tanton set up supposed independent groups/websites claiming to "watch the watchers", especially the Southern Poverty Legal Center SPLC who exposed the big picture, and accordingly management were smeared and attacked personally with claims of taking funds and paying themselves high salaries etc..

The SPLC which was created in an environment of segregation in the USA "Fighting Hate, Teaching Tolerance and Seeking Justice", conducted an investigation into John Tanton, The Social Contract Press, FAIR, Numbers USA etc. and finding that they were promoting hatred.

Some time ago Sustainable Population Australia linked Fiona Heinrichs wrote a piece "Sleepwalking to Catastrophe" that was cited by many and reviewed by TSCP (and has written here http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=12288 ) .

Further, like many from the SPA who gain easy access to the ABC *, Heinrichs appeared on the ABC's Science program where Robin Williams allowed her to read out her views without any questioning or challenge..... Her thesis or rant seemed to suggest that people should listen to young people like her, don't listen to Bernard Salt because he is not a real demographer (unlike Bob Birrell who is because he submitted articles to his own journal the now defunct "People and Place"?)

* Philip Adams of the ABC a supposed sceptic and "liberal" has had the whole lot including Paul Ehrlich, Dick Smith, Mark O'Connor etc. on and gives them a free ride...... it's Australia, the media are too matey and reliant with those they should be scrutinising.

Most surprising was in 2010 Dr. Bob Birrell appeared on John Faine's ABC Melbourne radio show where Birrell was neither challenged nor closely questioned by Faine who seemed to agree with notion at face value that there is "runaway" population growth and "immigration" (using the distorted NOM data including temps). So much to right wing claims that the ABC is a biased hotbed of radical lefties.....

Dr. Bob Birrell, although not an economist (nor linguist but does not stop him giving expert opinion on English language skills of foreigners) recommended strategy for Oz was to dramatically reduce immigration, focus upon the mining industry and with jobs for all Australians, therefore immigration is not required..... and when mining declines...? Don't think a nationalist socialist economic and ideological nirvana would be acceptable to many, and it doesn't work....

Gee Wiz Andras Smith,

Have a Bex, or sit down or try some Yoga or whatever you need to settle your alms.

Talk about someone with a complex, 1/100 you win

Scary

G

Predictable, as explained it's about neither me nor anyone who discusses or describes the roots of the anti immigration, population, humanity etc. movement, but simply confirms what is written in previous post?

Surprised no one has offered "we're persecuted victims" card yet......

You may need a Bex if one watches Doug Stanhope, comedian who lives on the Mexican border and his take on the "immigration" issue in the USA which applies equally to Australia, and Australians:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nW20EMJr6o4

Warning: Strong Language and very politically incorrect views.

Andras Smith "The first reaction is to attack the messenger through smear, innuendo, denigration etc... This is exactly what cults do"

It's exactly what *you* do.

Now you're claiming we're anti-"humanity"!

Yes, Geoff, this one scary!

individual, from my layman's knowledge of birth order, I would never support limiting childbirth.
Do you really want a future filled with unimaginative, spoiled first-borns?

Those middle and later children are the real movers and shakers in history.
I say either decide to have no children (get the surgery) or have at *least* 3.

What you have just written is complete and utter BS, Andras Smith.

Your claim that the opponents of immigration and population growth have no arguments themselves, and can only attack the messenger, ignores the fact that Malcolm King's article did exactly the same thing. His entire diatribe was one in which he examined the character and motivations of people who oppose his views. But when the blowtorch gets directed the other way, people like you scream "unfair!"

The western world is fed up of being swamped by legal and illegal immigrants from the third world. Anti immigration sentiments are now growing rapidly because of the unacceptable behaviour of too many of these immigrants, who do little except cause crime rates to rise sharply and who seem to need intergenerational welfare support.

It is pertinent to look at the motivations of people like yourself who want this unacceptable situation to continue. There are those with a religious idea that population growth is ordained by God and must never be controlled, and who see the that birth rate differentials as the key to their own religion taking over western countries. There are those who represent vested business interests, who don't give a damn who their consumers are, and who do not give a damn about whatever social problems are caused within western societies from never ending immigration.

There is the social services lobby who can see with the importation of unassimilatable and dysfunctional immigrant groups, a rich source of social strife which will need ever growing armies of social workers, police, lawyers, judges, and prison warders to combat.

Then there are the fairy land thinkers who have a compulsive psychological need to think that they are morally superior to everybody else, and who think that every race, ethnicity, religion and culture are absolutely equal in every way. These people think that the answer to all the world's problems is for George Bush, Osama bin Laden, Ivan Milat, Pol Pot, and everybody else on planet earth, to all join hands and sit around the campfire singing "Kumbaya".

Which one are you?