Malcolm Paddy' Cheryl King : "You can not remember a political party that evinced such intellectual poverty".
And political parties are such great intellectual leaders?

Malcolm, I hesitate to accuse you of the intellectual poverty with which you accuse those of us who, for very sound reasons, are concerned that growth, both of population and per capita consumption are exhausting the limits of our finite home leaving nothing for our children, later generations or other species. I hesitate because it assumes too much for the case you attempt to make by assertion and personal attack. When I pointed out that your original article contained an assertion which was totally without any foundation your response was to attack me in relation to getting on an aircraft, something that had absolutely nothing to do with your original article or my pointing out your error.
The simple fact is that we live on a finite planet and that it is axiomatic that one cannot have infinite growth of anything in a finite space. While it is true that we have supported an increasing number of people on the planet and provided an increasing supply of food for this larger population, it is also true that we have done this at the expense of running down some critical resources such as water, phosphorus and cheap energy. There is overwhelming evidence that we cannot continue to produce more food without these elements. Technological improvements have not removed the mismatch between population and sustenance, they have simply delayed the consequences by drawing on the resources that should be fairly shared between this generation and all later generations.
Far from being selfish to promulgate knowledge of this situation, it is those of us who care deeply about later generations who are the unselfish ones.

John, thank you for your post. The finite earth thesis is well known amongst systems theorists and I have used it myself when I want to impress people with the concept of limits or boundaries. There are clearly limits on the amount of oil and minerals in the earth, although we keep finding more and inventing more ways to extract them.

I would agree that some time in the future, unless we develop new sources of energy and begin recycling food and making new forms of fertiliser, we will have an SPA, SPGN or SSP type world. It is curious though to put forward a proposition such as a 'finite earth' because reducing the amount of people won't do much good in the long run will it? If all of the earth's resources are truly finite, then we're goners anyway. But they are not all finite and the SPP has simply reconstructed Malthuses acre of land to global oil and minerals.

I would have thought that a smart person such as yourself would not have let yourself be trapped by what is essentially a closed argument because you have to deny human agency, the societal benefits of research and education and indeed any notion of free will. John, is capitalism simply a voracious machine or does it have within it the means to generate not only itself but also reduce pollution and provide some of the problems we and future generations face? I believe it does.

The regressive policies of the SPP are not the way to go. They are antithesis of positive resolve. I wish you the best of luck.

As for Robert Le Page's comment "You can not remember a political party that evinced such intellectual poverty". And political parties are such great intellectual leaders?

A. Good point but the mainstream parties started off smart and got dumber. New parties should not start off dumb. It's such a handicap.

Talking of racists, another one this lot has been at it, Cory Bernardi's blog re. Ed Huusic and Moslems posted via another blog by Bill Muehlenberg:

http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/04/blogpost-ed-husic-cory-bernardi?CMP=ema_632

No surprise here about what Bernardi's blog promotes, especially as he has links with another John Tanton network group ("the secretive") ALEC, American Legislative Exchange Council:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/02/20/bernardi-v-fairfax-in-possible-defamation-battle/?wpmp_switcher=mobile

ALEC has a "colourful" profile according to the Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/04/1106275/-ALEC-SLLI-Bipartisan-Bigotry

No wonder the public face of those connected with Tanton are at times less than open about it less the message is not accepted (at face value) and broadcast by e.g. Australia's fearless and resourceful media .....

You didn't answer my question, Malcolm. Who pays your wages? Do you have any vested interest in inventing this flowery "pro growth forever" tripe?

Cmon, mate. You accused the people who want to see some population control as "racists, eugenicists, and right wingers" You can't throw brickbats at your ideological opponents and then stand on your dignity when they return the compliment.

Where are you coming from? Pure altruism? Or self aggrandisement?

Malcolm 'Paddy' King "its only solution is to get rid of people"

If you expect to be taken seriously don't make ridiculous provocative statements like this.
And unfortunately, I've heard it before on similar threads.

Stopping or reducing immigration is not "getting rid of" anyone.
It is simply limiting prospective future migrations across national borders.

"I would agree that some time in the future, .... we will have an SPA, SPGN or SSP type world"

Why wait until the 11th hour? Why not take action now?
If you see potential dangers down the road, you don't wait til you're about to hit them before you slow down.

LEGO "if people like you accuse us racists of being the only ones who are doing anything about it, then you are giving us a lot of prestige among our own people."

I don't know about prestige, but more and more people have heard this routine and no longer jump with fright at the accusation.
They just shrug, smile knowingly or roll their eyes.
We know it's just a shallow tactic.