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The Forum > Article Comments > Maybe the ADF needs to recover a sense of chivalry > Comments

Maybe the ADF needs to recover a sense of chivalry : Comments

By Mike Bird, published 19/6/2013

The sexual culture of the Australian Defence Force needs fixing. Recovering a sense of chivalry can repair it.

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Ask your grandad what he got up to when they went over to Cairo in 1941 and to occupy Japan after the war then ask your Dad what went on in Saigon and ask your son what went on in Phuket last summer.
Chivalry isn't the solution it's the problem, it blinds people to the realities of war and the group dynamic among men who are away from hearth and home,chivalry belongs in Mills and Boon novels, it has no place among fighting men.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 2:31:50 PM
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It was widely reported that some WW11 soldiers shot over the heads of the "enemy"?
That is until they encountered the death camps and became aware of the mass murder and atrocities committed there.
After that very few shot high, or considered that any of the killing immoral or unjustified.
As one veteran put it, suddenly we knew what we were fighting for and against!
Even so, for some of those soldiers, staving women who could be had for little more than a loaf of bread, were fair game?
And widows, fighting to save what remained of their families, consented!? As do young women drunk to the point, where they have passed out and unaware of what is happening!
Arguably, when a young man is thrown in at the deep end of a war, where it's kill or be killed, the very first thing he loses is the moral compass.
And there is a list of recreational drugs as long as your arm, some legal the rest not, that procure the same effect.
As for improving the moral standards of those we train to be leaders?
Well, if they don't have an unassailable moral code and compass, by the time they are selected, they will never ever grow a REAL one?
Somewhere it is written, give me the boy between 1 and 5, and I will give you the man!
We will no doubt go to war again, against some mass murdering medieval monster?
And we won't ever be able to justify our involvement, if we become that, or worse than that against which we fight!
Chivalry? Why not!
But it must be a rusted on part of your personalty, well before you sign up to a warriors code, or take a sacred oath of duty.
I believe what's missing is a bona fide profiling, that would eliminate these counterfeit posers, before they defile the good name, or the sacrifice of all those, who gave everything, so we might all live free!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 4:45:18 PM
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I love the way that women have been completely left out of the equation here (except of course for Lego's long-winded diatribe about their complete and utter incompetence in all things military).

This is all about men pontificating with one another about the rights and wrongs of rape in war zones.

Hello-oh? Look beyond yourselves, guys.

There's one or more women in all these scenarios undergoing the most horrific experience that could possibly be inflicted on any human being - i.e. being at the total mercy of one or more over-armed, battle-hyped ubermales, freaked-out on testosterone and evil-enemy propaganda, who has probably just killed or is about to kill her family and she will probably follow once they've done with her.

What we need is NOT a code of chivalry or, worse, a dumb set of rules on harrassment or yet another course on sensitivity training. The reason men rape women in war is because they are the ones with the guns (and swords). This situation has evolved because, over the millenia, men have systemically excluded women from all forms of physical and armed combat. The biggest irony for women is that this leaves them defenceless and in need of 'protection' by men - read 'rapable'.

The only way to stop war rape is for women to have the same access to the world's weaponry that men have.
Posted by Killarney, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 5:38:08 PM
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Hi there Mr Bird...

Indeed, of course our soldiers should have a sense of chivalry, you're perfectly correct ! I'd go further in fact, I'd place a general prohibition on the use of any intemperate or crude language also. I firmly believe, bad language of any kind, tends to debase and shame any young chap, who seeks a career in our Defence forces, don't you think ?

Another way of ensuring our soldiers, sailors, and air folk act in a more gentlemanly and chivalrous way, would be to recruit many more ladies, I do mean ladies into the Service. Not some of the 'rougher', more 'pugnacious' young girls one sees out and about, adorned in crude tattoo's and other metallic body piercings. Particularly into the more senior levels of the armed forces. And in so doing, it would introduce to our younger chaps a much higher standard of personal behaviour in which for them to emulate as they progress through their military careers. It could well prove to be a splendid outcome, I should think !

Further, I also think their uniforms leave a lot to be desired. We rely too much on force, and not nearly enough on negotiation. It is thought that many of the wars in the future will NOT be settled with weapons, rather by skilled negotiation. A uniform made of camouflage material, with all the badges, and pouches, and many pockets, does tend to make one's potential enemy quite nervous ? And that would be the last thing you'd want ?

In fact, ALL uniforms should be designed and made by ladies, without resorting to all this frightening, agressive design, and camouflage material !

As an example; For the Army - perhaps a soft fawn coloured material ? For the Navy - of course an 'off white' material with a protective sun hat, would be ideal ? And for the Air folk - a nice soft 'sky blue' material would be very fitting for them ?

Only suggestions of course ?
Posted by o sung wu, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 6:00:57 PM
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So a battalion of women facing another battalion of women would mean both sides would down arms with the first casualty.
And what part of that is not good idea?
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 6:45:42 PM
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It is not surprising that with a media that finds sex and sportsmen and soldiers great fodder for a dumbed down audience, that the same audience comes to think that sex offences abound in the said areas of interest. Also, that men are 'all after the one thing' and take liberties to get 'it'.

Of course with a PM and ministry who are forever playing the gender card (and class [warfare] card and xenophobia card) the misleading impressions are encouraged.

The definition of sex offence has been broadened too to include what has always been quite normal behaviour for the men, and yes the women too, of lower sociopolitical Oz. On top of that is the known but often denied preference of women for 'bad boys' and women's hatred of bad boys for behaving just the way that attracts women, but not being sorry and displaying 'commitment' afterwards. Bad boys are men and men are supposed to be thankful and malleable after being shown the rabbit as it were. But bad boys like bad girls (and there are many bad girls too, although it is not politically correct to say so) do not reform. Surprised by that, anyone?

That is not to say that there are no sex offences. But the subject is vastly overblown and to serve the need for an audience, or for a raison d'etre by careerists in the victim industry.

It really comes down to how the not so genteel men and women who make up the numbers at the footy, in defence forces, or at the pub chasing after buff men and women in uniform behave. Remember too that while bad boys and bad girls abound at the lower socioeconomic end of society, there are not unknown well up the line either.
Posted by onthebeach, Wednesday, 19 June 2013 9:38:33 PM
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