Antiseptic < " I would like to hope that women of good intent will argue the case for paternal reproductive choice, just as men did for women."

As a woman of good intent, I would be happy to go out and chant with the men, while they burn their jocks, when we all have a level playing field as far as pregnancy goes.

When men can be forced to carry a pregnancy themselves for nine months, or have to make a choice about aborting the child from their own bodies, we can have this discussion again.
Until then, I am happy with the current laws.

And no, I don't want to discuss the CSA......ever again.....!

Suse, you're determined to try to take an "us against them" position, which is not indicative of good intent, but that's OK, I expect that on this topic.

Why are you so determined that men should have no right to choose whether they wish to be a parent in the event of an unexpected and unplanned-for pregnancy? I am not suggesting that a man's right to choose should impact on the woman's right to do so, in fact it should be subordinate and only able to be exercised if she has already chosen to proceed with the pregnancy. She would still not be constrained from changing her mind and aborting at that point, so her rights are not impacted in any way.

It seems to me that you find the idea threatening in some visceral way, which is a common response among women I've observed and is why I suggested that a man could not carry the argument, he would just be abused. Could you try to explain it for me? Why do you feel so strongly that it is right and proper for a woman to have the right to choose to carry a pregnancy, but a man should have no choice at all? I don't want an ethical argument, I think the situation is pretty clear cut, I'd really like to understand why women obviously feel so strongly. It seems almost a hardwired response.

Great article, just wondering why the restaurant incident wasn't mentioned? Regardless it is absolutely repulsive what the PM and the shock jock said. A kinder class is better behaved then the majority of our politicians and media circus on both extremes. At least the circus performance is for free in the capital, though it is at the expense of the tax dollar.

On a separate note, not all Labor members are into the A word garbage including myself. You can join members of Labor for Life to give the unborn a democratic right to life. To find out more about Labor for Life email laborfor@live.com.au or facebook https://www.facebook.com/LaborforLife.

Joanofarc72

'You can join members of Labor for Life to give the unborn a democratic right to life. '

thanks for that. Its good to see their are some on the Labour side whose hearts aren't calloused in regard to stealing life from the unborn.

"And no, I don't want to discuss the CSA..

Yeah I'd noticed. Wish there was some way you could experience the pain of a that system they way many have. Perhaps then you might be a little more interested.

It's a brutal system administered by people who don't seem to care how much harm they do or how unjust it can be.

I can never experience pregnancy, something denied to me by nature but something a lot of women seem to consider to be one of the highlights of their lives even with it's discomforts and pain. I respect a woman's right to chose if the consequences of an unplanned pregnancy are more than she is willing to bear. Why is it so hard to accept that men to have lives, dreams and that the cost of an unplanned pregnancy might well be to high for them as well.

Why do you consider the freedom and control over their own lives of women to be untouchable and that of men not worth any concern.

Why for that matter do so many other women who claim to have an interest in equality consistently fail to defend the rights of men to choice?

R0bert

Antiseptic "Why do you feel so strongly that it is right and proper for a woman to have the right to choose to carry a pregnancy, but a man should have no choice at all?"

Sigh...I think I have explained my position on this subject hundreds of times before on this forum Antiseptic, but seen as you asked so nicely...

The answer is because the woman IS the one required to physically carry the pregnancy, so it is her body, her choice.

I assume you are coming at this question from many men's point of view though, in that why should they pay for the upkeep of a baby that was unplanned and unwanted by them?

That's easy...because that's what the male politicians in the Government many years ago decided should happen. I imagine that came about because of the many kids and single mothers who required Government help, and their reluctance to cover the costs, when Dads were out there happily going on with their lives, having had their sexual fun and moved on.

I also imagine you are asking why the fathers can't insist the women do have abortions if the fathers don't want the baby? Well, that DID happen quite a bit back in the good old days, and it wasn't too good for the mothers health to force her to abort against her will.

If I was wrong, can you rephrase your question to ask what you actually meant?