Susie the proposition thats been put is the right to do a virtual abort of the fetus. Some mey change their mind, I suspect some women have a change of mind after abortions as well.

Nothing in this issue is without its pains and conflicts.

I've not noticed anyone seriously calling for men to be able to force an abortion. That proposition seems to be one of the standard ploys to misdirect thenargument. The realities of being financially responsible for a choice rather than being able to pass that (and then some) onto someone else may place some women under more pressure to abort, welcome to the adult world.

Let me highlight yet again criticism of the views of some women, believing that women should face the same legal rights and limitations as men, critisism of what appear to be widely help feminist views do not equate to criticism of all women or bad views of all women.

On the other hand a general willingness to treat one gender differently under law does suggest a dislike or patronising attitude to one or both of those genders.

I do try pretty hard to ensure my views have balance. I am also extremly tired of feminists who use feminism as a guise for special treatment whee none is credibly required.

R0bert

Antiseptic, I wanted my baby, and so did my husband, and here we are both still together 25 years later...

"Do you honestly think any Government is going to agree to provide more welfare payments to support single mother's children because they enacted laws to absolve the fathers of any responsibility, simply because the fathers say they don't want to provide for their child because the contraception failed? "

RObert, disregard for the moment what you think the feminist conspiracy has foisted upon the poor male population, and answer the above question?

Maybe I'm not reading the other posters comments enough Suze but I don't see anywhere they suggested making a woman abort. It is an exercise in logic, ethics and equality. I don't think you can refute the logic, and it's always interesting the reaction by feminists who state they are all about equality, but only it seems for women.

"Do you honestly think any Government is going to agree to provide more welfare payments to support single mother's children"

Well, years ago many people would never have believed a government would support single mothers, or abortion. Women (and men) fought for these things, and it's a bit much for feminists to be lamenting a lcak of 'reproductive rights' (ie abortion rights) for women but so against men aborting their financial responsibility. Seems it's ok for a woman to kill the unborn baby, but not for men to let it live but have nothing to do with it.

Anyway, the government is absolving women from all responsibility when it allows abortion. Women aren't providing for their aborted children.
The government might end up better off because there are more abortions.

'In my experience, even if a man doesn't want the child while the woman is pregnant, or even when the baby is very young, they often change their minds later.'

Too bad. Women cant undo abortions, so men shouldn't be able to either. Unlike feminists I agree with equality.

I'm also not keen on this idea of the rights of children to see their parents, even at 18. I cant believe they retrospectively changed the law on all those sperm donors. Some guy does a nice thing to help other parents have children, then he is confronted by some child he never knew about out of the blue? What a joke.

The thing is suze, nobody actually knows for sure who the real father is of any baby. The father is who the mother says it is. Aborting fathers should not even be on the birth certificate.

Susie, perhaps you should answer the valid questions that have been put to you rather than all the diversions.

I think there is a difference between the matter of principle and the issue if actually getting governments to act fairly. So it does not matter how likely I think governments are to enact a fair law in the near future, I can still fight against mindsets which promote different treatment in law.

I doubt that any of the major parties will enact laws in the near future which give seperated and or divorced dads fair treatment. The left because they are tied to feminist ideology, the right because it costs and by hitting the dad hard they can balane some of the other pressures in the too hard basket. I don't intend staying silent on the issue until there is a change of view by either side.

R0bert

I'm pleased you wanted your baby, Sue. It seems you had a shotgun wedding though.

Would you have kept it if he'd not wanted it, knowing he had no choices?

If two lesbians can have a father's name expunged from a birth certificate and one of the lesbians entered instead, why shouldn't a man have the legal right to refuse being made into a father by a woman who wants a child herself but also wants a wallet for financial support?

Feminists see the man as only incidental, a provider of sperm, with no rights whatsoever, not even the right to know if the child bears his genes. Unfortunately some women have inherited long traditions of preveiving men this way.

Is it any wonder that parental alienation is rife, extends to all of the man's relatives, where grandparents can and are excluded from contact by the mother despite the father being gladly accepting responsibility, including financial accountability, for their care.