Pachelbel - what the hell are OUR beliefs?

We have never been a monoliythic culture; there had long existed, for example, a huge gulf in belief systems between catholics and protestants - employment opportunities were limited to people based on religion and each group vilified the other - bohemian sub cultures grew up in Sydney and Melbourne and other forms of radical social elements thrived, artist colonies developed rejecting norms of relationships and life style - we sustained all manner of different belief systems - we have a history featuring strong communist movements, strong nationnalist-fascist movements. So where is the commmon ground - up until now I would guess the only common ground has been a sense of reason and tolerance; both in short supply in some circles today.

NO one is forcing their beliefs on me; I cant remeber the last time I was told by my Islamic neighbours to comply with the requirements of Ramadan or was told to cover the head of my daughters or not eat Pork or not go to the footy on the Sabbath.

And as for revelling in freedom - we'd all better revel while we may - unreasoned fear is slowly but surely eroding that concept.

We will be, if this paranoid pre occupation persists, the architects of our own demise; the rise and fall of cultures is a bit like the old adage politicians and other notaries spout - you meet the same people on the way down as you did on the way up - if for arguements sake and it is a big if - over generations another culture come to dominate "ours", how well can we expect to be treated when we are the minority if we have treated them with intolerance and contempt.

And to what ends would we go to ward off this looming cultural transformation so many seem to be wetting their collective pants over. My advice comes from the sage mutterings of the perenially incontinent ; Just go with the flow - resistance is futile.

Dear posters,

Have been following the thread for while, thought an insight from an Australian Muslim might help:

- Some posters confuse excercising our freedom with ‘imposing it on others’ this is totally incorrect. We don’t eat pork but we don’t ask others to do it. Egypt with 55 million muslims and 15million Christians, have been servicing Christians with pork industry for the last 14 centuries, it never disappeared.
PS: Christmas and Easter are public holidays there as well.

- Industries will disappear myth: again forget Turkey but look at North African countries, Emirates, etc… They live on tourism and hospitality. Please rethink what you write. We don’t gamble or drink, that’s our religious belief not yours. All that is is we favour socially responsible economy and investment.

- An average Muslim in Australia will be working and having friends from different faith/ religious backgrounds or even sexual preference. Please provide me with statisitics when did a Muslim person offend another person belief. On the contrary, I can give you numerous facts on door to door knocking and harassment to Muslims homes by, say, missionaries and Jehovah witnesses. I used to find a bible invitation every month in my mailbox until I had to call and ask them to kindly stop it. Did you see Muslims doing the same?

- Demography paranoia:
Peter Costello defines having a family/ household with three kids is good citizenship. Most new generation Muslims have 2-3 kids which are far less than orthodox Jews or Christians (I remember on ABC an Iraqi Jewish lady had a dozen of children). Mind you, this is our choice to be become “good citizens” we choose to raise a family over having a yacht or a sportscar, gambling, travelling, etc..If someone chooses not to raise a family but raise a couple of dogs instead it is his/her choice in life.

- On the Islamic reforms: Turkey among other countries have been reforming for the last 3-4 decades and yet still facing difficulties with the EU membership rather than being embrassed as a model.

Part 2

The other point on future demography of Australia is the “Muslim of Middle East/ Arab” tabloid.

Over the last 5 centuries, the percentage of Arab Muslims is less than 15% of the total Muslims population and decreasing. In fact, a considerable chunk of Australian Arabs/ Arabic speaking (85-90,000) are in fact of other religions (Christianity, Judaism, others).

The non-arabs adoption of Islam is filtering a lot of the traditional tribalism imposed on Islam by Arabic culture (Not saying that all Arabic culture is bad but some social aspects of it are).
For example, over the last two years, approx 3-5 thousands Australians of Anglo/ European origin chose Islam as a religion. With the Non-Arab adoption of Islam, a lot of the negative influences of tribalism will surely wash off.
(Source is SMH artciles "lure of Allah")

Food for thoughts,

Peace,

I do not care if muslims wear the burq, hijab or any other ugly thing as long as they stay in their own countries.
But little by little they are forcing their traditions and attitudes on us , they do not want to meld into our society , do not want to integrate, do not want anything to do with our way of life yet expect us to give in to all their demands.
France had every right to insist on banning the wearing of hijabs at public schools, the same should apply here.

How absurd. How can you regulate what people wear? Many times in winter I have wrapped my shawl around my head, to stop my hair blowing everywhere and keep me warm. Is this okay because I am an agnoistic white woman? Because my skin is a boring pasty beige instead of a caramel sort of colour, am I simply keeping my hair un-frizzled, rather than making a political statement?

"Keep to their own countries"- Unless you happen to be a pure-blooded indigenous Australian, that strikes me as a very slippery slope indeed.

C'mon Laurie, don't be silly. May we assume that the windy conditions that forced you to wrap your shawl around your head have now passed? Not much breeze in Australian classrooms, is there Laurie?

Laurie, over the last six months (and I swear unknowingly and totally uncoordinated), I may have faced Mecca at least 180 times. Does that make me a latent muslim?