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The Forum > Article Comments > Palestine: two new Arab myths > Comments

Palestine: two new Arab myths : Comments

By David Singer, published 17/4/2013

According to Mr Barghouti there is apparently no need for further negotiations to determine the sovereignty of these areas.

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It might help to get rid of the biblical myths that God exists and that the God who exists is a real estate dealer who has given Jews title to the area. It also might help to recognise what most nations do - that the settlements are illegal under international law since nations have no right to make permanent settlements in conquered territory under occupation. An army of occupation is legitimate on conquered territory. Permanent civilian settlements are not.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 17 April 2013 8:48:56 AM
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Groaning, vomiting, hair-tearing, lip-biting, dog-kicking, nail-nibbling, screaming, cup-throwing, wall-punching...

These are some of the behaviours generated by another duplicitous Singer epistle that extolls the infinite 'virtues' of the Israelis and seeks to further undermine the Palestinians, the world's most down-trodden, crushed, humiliated, terrorized people.

Why is Singer allowed to punish and insult readers of OLO every week?

Why are few if any pro-Palestinian articles ever published?
Posted by David G, Wednesday, 17 April 2013 10:49:54 AM
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I don't usually read the drivel spouted by this odious author. I'm not pleased that I did so on this occasion.
However, in reply to his assertions that "Palestinians" must be a myth because they were not recognised under that name by the British has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read.
I don't believe that the Noongar people of Western Australia were recognised by the British either. They were simply considered to be natives. This doesn't mean they are just a myth. Likewise any other aboriginal nationality. The fact the the British knew very little about the people they ruled over does not mean these people didn't exist or have a particular identity. In fact the passages quoted show these people were very real and had very real interests which the British, at least, recognised, even if Mr Singer doesn't.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Wednesday, 17 April 2013 11:27:36 AM
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Neither pro-Israeli nor pro-Palestinian articles are useful. What is needed are sober assessments of the conflict. Unfortunately such articles are rare.
Posted by david f, Wednesday, 17 April 2013 12:14:17 PM
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Palestinians are not a mythical people. They are the people who live in Palestine, and those from whom they are descended who also lived in Palestine, right back to the times of the Canaanites and before.

A “people” called “the Jewish people” really are an invented entity: Google Shlomo Sand for a detailed account of just how the invention was worked, and how racists manufactured a “history” to present a “people” “chosen by God” (or “destined by history” for the non-religious) with “special” characteristics and entitlements not shared by anyone else in the world - including entitlement to an über-racist homeland in grabbed territory. Professor Sand’s exhaustively referenced account - “The Invention of the Jewish People” - is available from Amazon for about $16 or as a Kindle edition at a tenner.

It’s not the first “people” invented by racists, another being the “Aryan people” with similar delusions of exclusive entitlement to Lebensraum in other people’s territory and an even greater menace (so far) to world peace.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Wednesday, 17 April 2013 5:52:54 PM
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After reading “The Invention of the Jewish People” by Shlomo Sand, try "The Wandering Who" by Gilad Atzmon. Very, very rewarding!
Posted by halduell, Wednesday, 17 April 2013 6:13:45 PM
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Thanks halduell for the reference to Gilad Atzmon. Atzmon's arguments are summarised in an excellent review by Kevin MacDonald at http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/2011/10/a-dissident-meditation-on-jewish-identity-a-review-of-gilad-atzmons-the-wandering-who/ . Some of the readers' comments (but not Atzmon or the reviewer) reflect the racist trap of referring to "the Jews", who they supposed collectively did this or did that, as if there really was "a Jewish people". Atzmon makes it clear that there is not.
Posted by EmperorJulian, Thursday, 18 April 2013 10:29:31 AM
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We are entering an interesting era in the M-E.

--The M-E is becoming less important as a source of energy. A combination of new technology unlocking new sources of supply plus greater energy efficiency is transforming the world's energy picture. In the US new regulation due to come into force in the next few years will improve average energy efficiency in cars by around a third.

--The US especially is reducing, and will continue to reduce, it's reliance on M-E oil.

--China is now the world's largest oil importing nation. It's reliance on M-E oil is growing.

--The US Navy controls the sea lanes out of M-E. In other words the US can, if not completely turn off the spigot, slow it down. I do not see the Chinese matching the US Naval Power any time soon. In Any case the Americans already have the bases and infrastructure in place.

--Pipelines that circumvent the sea lanes are being built but these are long, undefendable and vulnerable to sabotage or bombing.They also leave the recipient nation vulnerable to blackmail by every warlord along the route.

--The more China becomes dependent on the M-E for energy, the more it faces the dilemma that has confronted every US Administration since Nixon. If Israel goes down all that M-E oil pumping capacity becomes radioactive dust. The Chinese can do these calculations as well as anybody.

Israel's hidden strategic weapon of last resort is that it really can disrupt the whole world's energy supply permanently.

So as M-E becomes less important to the US and more important to its greatest strategic rival where does that leave us?

Think about it
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Thursday, 18 April 2013 11:58:31 AM
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stevenlmeier, how does Israel have the capacity to turn off the worlds oil supply? I wasn't aware that Israel had much in the way of oil. While it may have a powerful military, so do many countries and I can't see them all sitting by while Israel destroys their economies.
Perhaps I missed something in your post.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Thursday, 18 April 2013 4:26:11 PM
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Rhys Jones asks:

>>stevenlmeier, how does Israel have the capacity to turn off the worlds oil supply?>>

I didn't say it had the capacity to turn off the world's oil supply,I said disrupt.

To quote from my previous post:

>>The more China becomes dependent on the M-E for energy, the more it faces the dilemma that has confronted every US Administration since Nixon. If Israel goes down all that M-E oil pumping capacity becomes radioactive dust. The Chinese can do these calculations as well as anybody.>>

In other words Rhys Jones, if all hope is lost, if Israel is doomed it will take the rest of the M-E with it. In those circumstances the obvious target for its nukes is the oil and gas infrastructure of countries like Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Iran.

And eventually, after some years and deaths from radiation poisoning, the infrastructure can be rebuilt except that, well, all the other infrastructure will also be gone - you know places like Amman, Baghdad, Cairo, Damascus, Mecca, Riyadh and Tehran to name a few as well as things like ports, airports, etc.

200 airbursts can do a lot of damage.

But that's only if Israelis think they're going down.

Of course, they may not. They may decide to go quietly. But somehow I don't think either Israel's neighbours nor countries dependent on M-E oil are inclined to put Israeli altruism in this matter to the test. So better not to be too threatening.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Thursday, 18 April 2013 4:42:32 PM
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Steven, your doom-laden comments suggest to me that Israel should be taken out of the world equation ASAP!

You reveal Israel as a potential spoiler, as a nation that thinks if it can't be Kingpin, then it should take out the rest of the region as well as killing millions in the process while making much of the planet uninhabitable.

Israel, like the U.S., is a danger to itself and the world. It is no better than North Korea!

It is far worse.
Posted by David G, Thursday, 18 April 2013 7:00:22 PM
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>>Israel should be taken out of the world equation ASAP!>>

Not sure what you mean by that.

However in some ways Israel seems to be entering ever more into the "world equation."

The Indian military has an insatiable appetite for Israeli military technology. In fact tiny little Israel is now India's second biggest defence supplier after Russia.

This year Samsung became the latest transnational high tech company to open a technology centre in Israel. It follows in the footsteps of companies like SAP (Germany) and Microsoft (US)

And Israel's innovative technology companies continue to make strides. This youtube clip may be of interest:

See: The operating room of the future
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=IfJemqkby_0

While some academics in Australia want to boycott Israeli universities Chinese students seem to find them attractive - especially for post-graduate studies.

Well Israel may or may not be doomed. It may or may not be "taken out of the world equation" as you so fervently desire.

But for now the growth of Asia is opening up new opportunities for the country. Not that traditional bonds are going away. Scientific cooperation between Israel and Germany has, if anything, grown in the past few years.

C'est la vie.
Posted by stevenlmeyer, Friday, 19 April 2013 12:07:00 AM
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Stevenmeier,
you seem to take a pretty grim view of the Israelis and of their neighbours. I suspect the Israelis are no more or less genocidal than any other nation. They have the safety of nuclear weapons which means they will never face an all out invasion by any of their neighbours. None of their neighbours would relish the certainty of nuclear annihilation I'm quite sure.
If only these same neighbours also had a nuclear deterrent, they too wouldn't have to constantly fear invasion or attack from Israel. Iran being a fine example. Israel and the West constantly talk up the "threat" posed by Iran whilst at the same time threatening to bomb or invade them. I have never heard Iran’s leaders threaten to bomb or invade Israel except in self defence.
The only violence Israel faces comes as a direct consequence of them carrying out an ongoing military occupation of another people and their land. This is the same violence the British faced when they occupied the same piece of land. I am quite sure that when the occupation ends the violence will end with it.
Posted by Rhys Jones, Friday, 19 April 2013 10:45:25 AM
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