Dear Jon,

<<Prove God exists, and you have a case.>>

What's that got to do with this topic? I suspect you already read many of my posts on OLO to know that I do not uphold that God exists - in fact I keep claiming that God's supposed existence would be a logical contradiction.

<<Till then it befits us to behave like rational and compassionate human beings.>>

I like the "like". So you already realise that humans in general are NOT rational beings, and a large proportion are not compassionate either (like those who try to enforce their values on others) and I can go further and add that we are not human beings in the first place, but you are now proposing that it befits everyone to display a good-old British stiff-upper-lip, PRETENDING that we were those "rational and compassionate human beings".

Even the most rational thoughts rest on a bed of irrational assumptions. For example, that obsession with existence, that silly and IRRATIONAL assumption as if the moral code by which we conduct ourselves should be based on what exists.

Dear Onthebeach,

<This is a secular State... If you don't like that, tough.>

This is a common logical fallacy, named "Argumentum ad baculum"!
(if you don't know what this means, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_baculum)

You have already declared an open war on God's people, yet you day-dream on them happily surrendering their hearts and minds and that which is dearer to them than the breath of their life, to your evil Godless lifestyle. You are up for surprises, lad. Your human-made laws mean less to me and the other people of God than discarded nail clippings.

Dear Mhaze and Saltpetre,

Robert Darby based this discussion on the assumption that circumcision is as bad on boys as it is on girls. If that assumption fails, then this whole discussion is meaningless, but let's not divert the topic midway.

Saltpetre, what about Condoms! They would have saved a lot of STD infections over the past century.
HIV came to light in the late seventies and was fully recogonised and information publically made known in 1982. Today medicine has gained control of HIV to the benefit of persons afflicted, who now live fulfilling lives.
HIV is predominent in Africa, where Condoms are not freely available, nor the medicine to contol the infection.

Saltpetre

You didn't care to mention that Brian J. Morris is the author of the site you posted. Morris's recommendations are highly controversial figure, as a Google search will show.

As far as I was able to establish, Morris is a biologist, not a member of any of the professions one would look to for advice on elective cosmetic surgery of infants. Goodness knows why he is on a mission against little boys' bits.

All anaesthetics and surgery carries some risk. That risk is so much higher for infants. Why would a mother put her perfect little infant at risk unnecessarily? Did she and Nature produce a defective child?

Infants can lose a critical amount of blood into a nappy without it being noticed as concerning.

Forget improving on nature, just wash with clean water and do not try to move the foreskin on a child to 'clean'. That can cause skin damage. The foreskin will move of its own accord later.

Should be, " Morris's recommendations are highly controversial, as a Google search will show".

I would agree. after reading about Brian J. Morris "Crusade" for male circumsion.
To quote him as a criterion for overall child male gentital mutilation, is medically dangerous.

Onthebeach and Kipp,

I provided that link for access to comprehensive factual information about circumcision and related issues, and if you only looked at the site you would quickly see that your criticism of Morris and of his motives is totally unfounded.

BTW: I was looking for facts in my original post. None have been forthcoming. So, here are some facts: The anterior tip (prepuce, or opening end) of the foreskin contains significant sensory nerve cells, and in that respect is similar to the female's clitoral prepuce; the sensitivity obtained is one reason for retention of the foreskin; however, if there is evidence of phimosis in the infant this may mitigate sufficiently in favour of circumcision.

http://www.circinfo.net/physical_problems.html

Onthebeach, your advice re care of the intact male infant should be part of the education of all prospective mothers. Good-on-ya.

However, does the following brief extract on Dr Morris' credentials sound as though he is not qualified to research and discuss this issue?

"Brian J. Morris was born in 1950 in Adelaide, South Australia, graduated from the University of Adelaide in 1972 and obtained his PhD from Monash University and University of Melbourne (jointly) in Melbourne in 1975, before doing 3 years of postdoctoral research in the USA, firstly at the University of Missouri, Columbia for a year, and then at the University of California, School of Medicine, in San Francisco.
He returned to Australia in 1978 after being appointed as an academic at The University of Sydney in 1978, won the Edgeworth David Medal (state award for science) in 1985, was awarded a DSc in 1993, and was appointed to a Chair in the School of Medical Sciences in the Faculty of Medicine from 1999. He was elected as a Fellow of the American Heart Association in 2003. In 2006 he won The Faculty of Medicine Award for Excellence in Postgraduate Research Supervision."