The "Australian citizens" killed and wounded wouldn't be former "refugees" would they; fleeing a "well founded fear of persecution" in the very place to which they voluntarily returned, having gained Australian residency?
Were their travels funded by genuine employment in Australia , by Centelink benefits or by "employment" as a "human rights advocate" at the taxpayers expense?
What a joke!

Rattler
If the dead included former refugees, then their fear of persecution was indeed “well founded”

Reminds me of 2006, and the last big Hezbollah/Lebanese/ Israeli clash when huge numbers of Lebanese, who we thought we had given refuge to and billeted safely in our western suburbs (safely for them, if not necessarily safely for our selves) suddenly needed re-rescuing from Lebanon, where soon after securing their Oz meal ticket they had returned.

Well said, SPQR. The hordes evacuated from Lebanon at the taxpayers expense were asked to refund the cost of their flights back to Australia, an expense which, presumably, they'd have incurred anyway at some point. I recall Alexander Downer, as Foreign Minister, saying that virtually none did so. Parasites!

I advocate that any "refugee" who leaves Australia and returns to the place from which they "fled", not be allowed to re-enter Australia. This could easily be monitored by reference to their passports. Any claiming to have lost their passport would automatically be deemed to have returned to their place of origen.

Any refugee in receipt of unemployment benefits or disability pension should not be issued an Australian passport.

Rattler:

...And if these “Expats” (?) returning to home countries to fight in homeland conflicts as Australian citizens, are actually the adult children of the refugees, then that null and voids your argument doesn't it! (?).

Hi Diver,

I don't advocate that my proposal would apply to Australian born children of refugees. They are in no way responsible for the actions of their parents.

But what would you propose?

Cheers,

Rattler

Rattler:

...As the human instinct is to "fight to the bitter end", then fight they will! Much better to complete the war at home than to invite the conflict to our own shores!

...Their personal choice to risk life and limb for failed causes is endemic; best for us all to accept the reality and not "discourage" their desire for death!

The author talks of Hazaras as being totally innocent victims suffering persecution. The reality is never that simple. This has been the problem with the portrayal of refugees, the distinction between villains and victims is very hazy one at best. The Hazaras are using this narrative to avoid any analysis of their own complicity in the problems they are fleeing from.

The basic problem as far as I can see is one of rapidly expanding populations from various ethnic groups crowding each other out, competing for territory and resources. The Hazaras are no different from other groups in my opinion in this regard

Good comment,

Then there's the Sunni v Shia issue, which we're actively "importing".

Farquhar is right. So long as a society refuses to get out of the Malthusian trap, there are going to be these sorts of incidents. In Afghanistan, the population growth rate is 2.22% (doubling time of 31 years). The total fertility rate is 5.64 births per woman, and the median age of the population is 17.9 years. In Pakistan, the population growth rate is 1.55% (doubling time 45 years). There are 3.07 births per woman, and the median age is 21.9 (Figures are from CIA World Factbook; doubling times were calculated by me from the population growth rates.) These people are very poor right now.

This sort of conflict over resources has been going on since before there were modern humans. There is abundant evidence (and some very graphic illustrations) in "Constant Battles" by Prof. Steven Leblanc (Archaeology, Harvard) and "Warfare Before Civilization" by Prof. Lawrence Keeley (Archaeology, University of Chicago). Here is a description in Prof. Keeley's book (p. 37) of excavations at a burial ground in Egyptian Nubia that was in use from 12,000 to 14,000 years ago:

"Over 40% of the fifty-nine men, women, and children buried in this cemetery had stone projectile points intimately associated with or buried in their skeletons. Several adults had multiple wounds (as many as twenty), and the wounds found on children were all in the head or neck - that is, execution shots. The excavator, Fred Wendorf, estimates that more than half the people there had died violently, He also notes that homicidal violence at Gebel Sahaba was not a once-in-a-lifetime event, since many of the adults showed healed parry fractures of their forearm bones - a common trauma on victims of violence - and because the cemetery had obviously been used for several generations."

These sorts of sites are found all over the world, and the estimated death rates from violence make our bloody 20th century look like a happy multicultural picnic. Refugee places should go to genuine political refugees who stuck their necks out to fix their societies.

Is it fear, uncertainty and distrust, intense competition for scarce resources, or sheer inculcated intolerance and hatred which so pits man against man? And, who or what is responsible for such blatant corruption of basic morality - such as is constantly being demonstrated, not only in Pakistan against the Hazaras, but in India, Syria, Mali, Indonesia, and throughout the world? Are government and bureaucracy to blame, or mere human frailty, or must we delve deeper into the realms of superstition and indoctrinated religious (and political) intolerance, dogma and corruption?

So many 'groupings' - Hazara, Shia, Sunni, and so many others, Christian, Hebrew, Hindu, Buddhist, etc, not to mention 'ethnic' differences, variations, origin and history. But, why can we not live together in peace and harmony, and in constructive co-operative endeavour to share the wealth and promise of this finite and fragile world for the benefit of all? Alas, the moral compass has been hijacked by amoral vested interests, corruptions of human and historical record, and the magnification of the 'mystical' at the expense of the 'natural'.

We have no need of a mystical Heaven and Hell, for we are too busy creating them here on Earth on a daily basis. Rather than reveling in diversity, we dote on paranoia and the peddling of fear and usury.

Compassion will always have its limits, so long as we fail to overcome the folly of our inability to enable reason to triumph over our basest instincts, and learning to supplant superstition. The 'Dark Ages' are thriving still, and the 'Dawn' remains elusive and far off.

…I think you “over specify” Saltpetre, in your description of human nature. Humans are simply ferocious “Killers”. Remove law and order and your head will roll for no real reason too! Humans are gifted with a natural dislike of each other. Hatred is the most intense of human emotions: Man will always fight first and make love second, given the chance!

...And don’t you think Capitalism is the personification of humanity, not religion. I think you may be tripping over your Atheistic mantra.

Saltpeter,

With your high blown rhetoric, lacking any practical solution/s to the issue at hand, don't you find your "nom de plume" ironic? An ancient, essential ingredient of gunpowder!

I don't suggest that I have the answer/s to the actual issue at hand here, but what I do know is that these "refugees", having created the problems from which they "flee", invariably head to the liberal, democratic, West, knowing that we're a soft touch. I don't see any "traffic" headed in the opposite direction!

I've made my point; last post.

Diver, I hate to disillusion you, but mine is not an atheistic mantra, but rather a mantra of tolerance, and certainly not one-way tolerance - where the meek and the compassionate are continually preyed upon by the unscrupulous - but a universal system of tolerance based on the principles of universal human rights, the sanctity of life, and the incontrovertible tenet that all men (and women) are created equal.

Do we, as a rule, determine to remain 'beasts', or would we rather aspire to peaceful and constructive coexistence, given half a chance? (And, is not religious intolerance a form of baseness?) Would we automatically hate our neighbour, unless we were taught to focus on difference?

A renaissance is needed in human affairs, and diplomacy is surely a more acceptable and constructive avenue towards a 21st Century 'Golden Age' than interminable warfare, alienation and dispossession. It appears clear that Humanity faces an enormous task of reformation, reconciliation and renewal, but it remains uncertain when we may have the will or sufficient incentive to embark on such a demanding project. Perhaps only the brink of the abyss may bring mankind to its senses.

I pity the plight of the Hazaras, but theirs is the merest tip of an enormous iceberg of inequity, intolerance and injustice, and in a world whose prospects and possibilities have never been more promising - excepting for a lack of basic humanity.

Saltpetre:

...Eugenics or breading for a purpose, (but who’s purpose)? Is the ultimate answer to war. Part one of the program must begin, (and has already begun in the West), by feminising men! (Some fools believe).

...The political arm of the “Bene Gesserit” is evident also in the West! Look around: Should I dare mention Lieutenant Julia Gillard and her love affair with the “Golden Path”; a world of female domination surrounded by the effeminate male underling!

...Is there hope for the male of the species? There is hope yet for the continuation of male dominance, but in war alone will it prosper

It is a total waste of time worrying about what has been going on in
that whole Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran and most parts of the Middle
East until they abandon the practise of generation after generation
marrying their cousins.

They have developed behaviour practices that are built in and it also
seems to have affected their ability to negotiate and compromise.

They need to introduce new gene strains into their populations and then
after a few generations perhaps we could look at them differently.

So what if expats go to safe countries and are blown up or killed in accidents or get caught up in violence they cannot control? Will the racist dingbats here claim they are bad too?

And the Lebanese people were not at war until Israel attacked them so why wouldn't Lebanese people be there for holidays?

Fair dinkum, some people in this country are so blind and ridiculous.

Australia is contributing to and assisting in the murder and genocide of Hazara as was discovered long ago.

When the taliban took over and displaced 3 million in the Swat Valley we didn't send aid, we sent AFP and spies to stop refugees leaving.

http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/the-refugee-deathtrap/518/

It might come as a real shock to the bogans here but we do not have any right to do these things, we are the only country in the world who does them, we get people slaughtered and then we jail those who get here.

But if people want to go back and help their families that is none of your business, they do not deserve to be killed for doing it.

I sometimes think many Australian's like living in their selfish little ignorant bubbles and those ignorant little bubbles are nurtured by our racist leaders.

Hazaras do appear as a people apart, with no safe haven no matter where they turn. It also appears that they might well be classified as 'moderate' Muslims. If this assessment is reasonably accurate, then there could be good reason for our immigration authorities to look into the possibility of offering preference to this minority in our immigration program.

I have no particular knowledge of this minority, but a number of news reports, including the one linked by Marilyn Shepherd in her above posting, indicate that ethnic Hazaras are singled out for 'special' treatment by various 'militias', in both Afghanistan and Pakistan (and possibly elsewhere). Reason enough I think for our authorities to look more thoroughly into their plight, with a view to diplomatic efforts to improve their prospects abroad, as well as into possible justification for an 'express' refugee processing provision for members of this oppressed minority.

We would have no wish to import 'radical' elements, but reasonable efforts to aid a moderate Muslim community in need of our assistance would be a worthwhile humanitarian act, and could well improve our image and reputation within the broader Islamic community, both at home and abroad. It would be prudent of course to consult with our resident Muslim leaders in this regard, before proceeding with any indicated immigration action.(Their response(s) may also tell us something worth knowing about their own preferences - or 'prejudices'.)

Worth considering? Although We currently have some employment 'issues', one 'solid' and gainfully employed refugee could do a lot to improve the situation of his/her relatives abroad.

'Good example', I feel, has a far better chance of altering and improving attitudes than sanctions or intimidation ever could, and we should all be well aware that some huge attitude shifts will be required before 'Utopia' could ever become even a blip on the horizon of this ever-so-troubled world.

@Saltpetre,

When considering the plight of the Hazara you need to see past the marketing, the hype that has been put about by the refugee advocates and complicit journalists.

The core of the anti-Hazara feeling is a Sunni V Shia divide. ALL Shia’s living in Sunni dominated Pakistan have been the target of attacks. As have the Hindu minority –and in fact ALL other minorities in Pakistan: http://www.faithfreedom.org/articles/persecution-by-islam/kidnapping-of-hindu-girls-for-raping-or-conversion-and-marriage-to-muslims-2/

The key difference is when the Hindus flee, they go to Hindu dominated India. However, in recent times --since word has got around about how easy we are --many Hazara's DON’T head to Shia homelands, they head for the affluent west.

If you take a look at the Hazara sites on the web –and there are many of them –they are very well networked and very well briefed on what is needed to get into the West.

____________________________________
Re: Marilyn Shepherd,

At times like this, when Marilyn is wont to stand in the pulpit and lecture the rest of us about compassion and through around words like racist and bogan it is well worth remember some of her earlier posts. Like the sentiment she expressed in this one, on Monday, 14 January 2013 4:03:10 PM -- QUOTE “How about the 300,000 Russian frauds go home,” She was talking about Russian refugees to Israel!

Now if you or I had said that we’d be bogans or racists!