SM,

"I can only lead you to wisdom, I cannot make you think."

(Superbly arrogant:)

Think on this:

http://www.ibtimes.com/nouriel-dr-doom-roubini-karl-marx-was-right-841825

It's a finite system.

As someone who has worked hard to derail this thread with your silliness and narrow world view, it really is beyond the pale that you would claim that someone else (who is obviously much brighter than you) can't be made to think.

'Know Thyself' seems to be an appropriate maxim for your condition! A touch of humility wouldn't hurt either.

Well thanks to all for an interesting discussion, and opportunity to mend some bridges.
I too sympathise with Pericles's last--which was the note I first chimed in with. One of the things which maintains hegemony is our endless discussions: idealism. And one thing we have to recognise about capitalism is that it is responsive to critique, indeed it's a chameleon; it will change it's skin colour without changing its essence. This has led to an entire system of thought (cultural materialism) that puts its faith in the "teleological evolution" of political economy (though these are all misnomers; materialism implies no faith and no teleology. It's founder theorised this teleological evolution in purely functionalist terms).
But while I'm pessimistic about our future, I'm not pessimistic about the human spirit or essence, which (is what?) seems to me to develop, or degrade, symbiotically with the prevailing ideology. We should not condemn human nature, but the prevailing system which makes it depraved.
To defend or condemn "human nature" is to subscribe to something centred in the individual--as though God or the Devil had us in his charge. It's nothing so supernatural; we're the puppets of political economy.

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Dear David G., Poirot & Squeers,

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David G -

I am pleased you are happy to stay with us a little longer and give the grapes time to ripen ...

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Poirot -

Thank you for your interesting links ...

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Squeers -

You note that "materialism implies no faith and no teleology". No teleology, that I understand ... but no faith ?

I think you mean what I call "blind faith". It is difficult to imagine life without faith. Simply placing one foot after the other in order to walk requires faith.

Allow me to submit the following definitions for your consideration:

"Faith" is belief where there is no material evidence, only circumstantial evidence or a credible eye witness (or both).

"Blind faith" is belief where there is no material evidence, no circumstantial evidence and no credible eye witness.

Naturally, as I am sure you will have guessed, I place belief in the supernatural in the category of blind faith.

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For those who have an hour to spare and wish to use it well, you could do worse than watch this doco: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5n1p9P5ee3c, 'Crossroads: Labor Pains of a New Worldview'. It synthesizes very well (in my view) much of the various themes and points of discord revealed in the course of this thread, using the metaphor of 'humanity at a crossroads in our evolutionary journey'.

Those interviewed include the author of 'Spontaneous Evolution', cell biologist Bruce Lipton, plus quantum physicists, psychologists, psychotherapists, authors, doctors and thinkers of various kinds. Notable by their absence are economists - don't say I didn't warn you!

Here's another interesting paper - on the the crises of democratic capitalism:

http://newleftreview.org/II/71/wolfgang-streeck-the-crises-of-democratic-capitalism