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The Forum > Article Comments > The problem of gun control: the myth of American uniqueness > Comments

The problem of gun control: the myth of American uniqueness : Comments

By Binoy Kampmark, published 20/12/2012

The debate on gun control in the United States is a case in point, the flipside of a fictionalised form of American exceptionalism.

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When people talk about the White doomer/prepper/survivalist types they assume that:
A: These people are serious.
B: They can back up their talk of second amendment rights or fighting back against government oppression.

To use an American expression "They can't do diddly squat".
Cast your gaze back in time to Little Rock 1957, Philadelphia 1985,Ruby Ridge or Waco, or even the recent Police treatment of protestors in Seattle and Indianapolis, apart from the highly dubious case against McVeigh/Nicholls these "Gun Nuts" have made no notable response to government heavy handedness and murder.
When we talk about Militias and Cults such as CI or the various types of Neo Nazis few people realise that these groups are always quickly infiltrated and entrapped by the FBI. In a recent interview Robert N Taylor of the 1970's underground militant group the Minutemen estimated that at it's height the group was composed of at least 1/3 government agents or informants, the same is true today.
The FBI and law enforcement generally trample over people with alternate or eccentric views all day every day and no "Gun Nut"ever does anything, this hysteria over Mrs Lanza's alleged beliefs and by extension all people who share those sentiments is ludicrous, what did her son do? He didn't go and carry out a suicide attack on Police, soldiers or FBI agents like McVeigh or Nidal Hasan, he killed his mother, a group of defenceless women and little kids then himself.
These "doomers" and militia types are not to be taken seriously, they are not Hamas or Islamic Jihad, if a gun ban was enforced they'd give up their guns and find a new hobby like all good, law abiding White people.
Posted by Jay Of Melbourne, Thursday, 20 December 2012 1:45:22 PM
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So few seem to be bothered by the complete disparity between POTUS pulling his tear-jerking antics in Sandy Hook while doing nothing about the "bug-splat" that is part and parcel of his drone attacks.
It might be of interest to some that according to the most recent statistics from the Anglophone world, murders with firearms are NZ - 10, UK - 14, Oz - 59, Canada - 144 and the USA - 9,369.
Go figure.
America is not unique. It's just grossly irresponsible and supremely paranoid. There was an old adage in the days of the wild west. If you live by the gun, you will die by the gun.
Again, go figure.
Posted by halduell, Thursday, 20 December 2012 3:38:34 PM
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Brendan O'Niell, a claimed Marxist, has written an interesting critique. I posted the link elsewhere. However it is as relevant here.

http://www.spiked-online.com/site/article/13179/

Here is a small section, but the whole article is worth reading. Always good to get another view.

"No one knows what was going on in the mind of the Connecticut shooter. But what was striking about his shooting spree, like that which occurred in Columbine High School in 1999 or at the West Nickel Mines Amish School in 2006, was the utter lack of restraint, the absence of any moral code saying ‘It is wrong to violate a school’ or simply ‘It is wrong to shoot a six-year-old child in the head’. Such a dearth of restraining morality is something new, springing more from today’s culture of estrangement, and the individual nihilism it can nurture, than from the 200-year-old Second Amendment.

School shootings are better understood, not as the end product of American revolutionaries’ insistence on the populace’s right to bear arms, but as part of today’s trend for highly anti-social, super-individuated acts of nihilistic, narcissistic violence - from so-called ‘Islamist attacks’ carried out by British men on the London Tube to Anders Behring Breivik’s massacre of 77 of his fellow Norwegians last year. What such assaults share in common is a profound sense of cultural disconnection. They are, in many ways, the most extreme expression of the narcissism of our age, in which there is the constant promotion of self-obsession over socialisation, and individual identity over collective citizenship, giving rise to a sometimes volatile atmosphere - through both removing individuals from any sense of a meaningful social fabric and imbuing them with a powerful sense of entitlement, where one’s self-esteem counts for everything, and thus any undermining of it is a slight of the most dire order.

To try to explain mass school shootings through the fact that guns exist is like trying to explain the al-Qaeda phenomenon through the fact that aeroplanes exist: it fetishises the technical means as a way of avoiding grappling with cultural factors."
Posted by onthebeach, Thursday, 20 December 2012 5:42:08 PM
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Onthebeach: Finally some informed comment. Rather than more of the same old same old Anglophobia!
Yes, as other less well informed posters have alleged, there are American drones in the air; and for very cogent reasons!
And yes, it's almost impossible to take out mass murdering extremist elements, without also eliminating the innocents they hide behind.
And yes, some of the support elements are screaming injustice!
All while ignoring the quite deliberate shooting of a teenage schoolgirl, just because she had the courage of conviction and a willingness to speak her mind! And the murder of a kneeling wife, allegedly because of adultery?
Well, her heroic husband accused her; and this was all the evidence he required to execute his kneeling wife, "from behind", all while she pleaded, he should get on with it, in the knowledge, this was the only way she could escape a cruel and vicious tyrant, or a stone age culture, where these sorts of things are normal, or accepted everyday events?
And then they cry foul over drone attacks! How dare the Americans seek reprisals!
If these innocent burgers, would simply stay on their side of the border, and stop planting IUD's, which discriminate even less than a nutter with a gun!
If they stopped forcing a poor population, at the point of a gun, to grow and harvest heroin, which also kills thousands per annum!
Then perhaps drone attacks could conclude.
Incidentally, we Australian long ago banned cluster bombs and land mines. So we don't have a case to answer for either!
Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Friday, 21 December 2012 12:33:14 PM
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@rhrosty. Your moral confusion, not to say your grasp of facts, is increasingly evident. You persist in alleging that those who criticise the lawlessness of US foreign policy are anglophobic. Are we supposed to remain silent in the face of the facts? The US has been responsible for the deaths of millions of people since WW2 alone, including hundreds of thousands of women and children.

Is the use of drones, a breach of international law quite apart from its killing of women and children to be excused because of the (to western eyes) barbaric nature of some of the customs of the victims?

Why not comment on the selective morality of US aggression? They condemn the Taliban, and bomb Yemen and Somalia, and arm and finance terrorist groups attacking Syria, yet are conspicuously silent on the brutal suppression of legitimate dissent in Bahrein or the even more brutal regime in Saudi Arabia.

As to your comment on the heroin trade it is so appallingly ill-informed that I wonder if you bother to actually study any facts before you leap into print for the umpteenth time.
Posted by James O'Neill, Friday, 21 December 2012 4:00:08 PM
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David G.

The proverb states that people who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Australians have also done their share of killing, starting with our own indigenous people after we fist arrived.

Not all americans have bloodlust, and Ron Paul as one of their saner politicians has stated time and again that americans should withdraw from every foreign country and concentrate on protecting her own borders.

He could see that antipathy toward America was rising, and he knew the reason was as follows. Every time America was called on for help, to those asking they were saviours. To the opposing faction they were aggressors or territory grabbers, or both. So they've been in a no win situation whoever they help. Should they ignore calls for help then they would be termed selfish. As you must surely appreciate, they're damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

You would like to 'get rid of the lot of them? Who would you propose should take over the reins? Communist China has the largest military force in the world. Close behind are communist North Korea,and India maintains a large military force too. The Russian federation is almost on a par with the U.S., so the first 3 I mentioned with their superior strength should be your choice as an alternative to America.

Maybe you should give this some thought before so hastily passing judgement on America. Remember, that country has to deal with it's own internal problems as well as other nations'.

For myself, I'm happy that they stepped in and and helped save Europe from the Nazis - a sentiment probably shared by all Europeans who suffered at that time.
Posted by worldwatcher, Friday, 21 December 2012 5:29:47 PM
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