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The Forum > Article Comments > Euthanasia myths > Comments

Euthanasia myths : Comments

By Marshall Perron, published 19/11/2012

Studies show that the dire forecast of threats to the vulnerable and a slippery slope do not exist. So, what is the problem?

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I agree I think we (ozzies) need to grow up and weed out the frozen minded religious adherents in our GOVT. It really is a mystery that a tribe of paedophiles have their way over people my age when it comes to our decision regarding our exit strategy . It's none of their God Dam'd
Business !
Posted by Garum Masala, Monday, 19 November 2012 10:21:07 AM
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Religious believers will always be over-represented in politics, because the practitioners of religion and politics share certain core assumptions:

* Ideological convictions trump evidence
* Collective action trumps individual freedoms
* Moral outrage trumps rational argument
* Collective delusion trumps scientific investigation

And until the religious population drops to negligible levels -- or administration becomes a rational and purely mechanical discipline -- this overlap will prevail. Party politics is merely a more sophisticated way of deciding what God wants us to do.
Posted by Jon J, Monday, 19 November 2012 12:59:31 PM
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A great article, thank you! Sadly we are up against the power and money of the Vatican on this one and to give them credit for one thing, they know how to lobby behind the scenes. So their power is far greater then the few people who actually agree with them.

Many politicians just won't touch this one, in case it costs them a few votes and to win the next election, every vote matters.

So our old people continue to suffer. Its time that we called a referendum on this topic, that would settle it once and for all.
Posted by Yabby, Monday, 19 November 2012 3:50:45 PM
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Most people now do not believe in a God of any sort, those that do have been brainwashed as children Into their parents faith, and this will continue down the line, especially the Catholic and Islam faith, but all the rest of religions are just as bad. Having discussed VE with a Catholic member of parliament I came to the conclusion that his church upbringing will always get in the way of any decision in parliament as to what the wishes of his electorate may want, this is wrong, I want to end my life the way that I see fit, and not by the rules of some clown from a religious faith in Parliament.
I cannot envisage voting for Tony Abbot as Prime Minister at the next election, nor his off sider Christopher Pyne, both staunch Catholics, as the rules of that out of date church , except for child abuse, which seems to be cordoned, but mention the word VE and it conjures up immediately killing in their mind of the wrong sort, you know "though shall't not kill" except in war (condoned).
"Suffer the little children to come unto me" definitely OK by the Catholic priests for their own gratification, it is time all tax free religions were well and truly buried.
Posted by Ojnab, Monday, 19 November 2012 4:15:48 PM
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It's a bit hard to know whether to believe the ever-foundational 85% support figure or not. On one hand you would expect even more people to care that you don't suffer pain when near death, but what is really telling is that in all the newspaper articles where a poll is attached (such as http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/political-news/greens-try-to-overturn-ban-on-euthanasia-20121118-29kay.html#poll) the poll results *never* agree with the assertion.
Posted by John Fox, Monday, 19 November 2012 6:31:32 PM
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A very good article with one very true paragraph:

<" Progress will be made when we have politicians who are prepared to examine the options of how a law permitting voluntary euthanasia can be made to work safely instead of taking the attitude "It can't be done." To do that, some of them will have to acknowledge that they were not elected to put the views of the church before the wishes of the community."

While I support anyone's right to end their life under strict conditions, I do worry about WHO will be actually giving the drugs to end their lives?

I'm assuming it would have to be their GP or specialist who writes up and gives the final drugs at a time of the patient's choosing?

What if neither of these doctors is comfortable with doing it?

Would they then have to find another doctor willing to euthanase them?
A stranger?
Would there then be just a few doctors willing to do it... an awful job...?
Posted by Suseonline, Monday, 19 November 2012 8:19:29 PM
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@Suseonline: "While I support anyone's right to end their life under strict conditions, I do worry about WHO will be actually giving the drugs to end their lives?"

Surely if you trust a doctor to correctly prescribe and -- if necessary -- administer drugs that will SAVE your life, there should be no question about trusting them to do the reverse if necessary? Inducing death -- once the patient has requested it and confirmed their request -- is a very simple medical procedure.
Posted by Jon J, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 6:26:22 AM
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Responding to points made, the common online polls are unscientific and easily manipulated. Religious backed organizations have a network of people, including overseas, who swamp any euthanasia polls with repeated calls to distort the figures.
The only valid polls are by professional organizations like gallop, Roy Morgan and Neilsen. Every one of those will show a massive majority favour VE.

Doctors who do not want to participate in voluntary euthanasia do not have to. In every proposed law participation is voluntary for all persons involved. Doctor, nurse, chemist,etc. Their right to decline is protected and no action can be taken against them for non participation.

Considering the small number of patients who will opt for VE, most doctors will never be asked to assist someone to die. Surveys show about half of all doctors are supportive of VE.

Marshall
Posted by Marshall Perron, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 2:14:27 PM
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Suze, the way I understand it is that in Switzerland, it is the
patient themselves who administers the drug, after obtaining the
prescribtion of around 10or 15 grammes of Nembutal. Its prepared
as a liquid and they drink it themselves. Its the same drug as is
used by vets, when your pet is suffering and you don't want to
see it suffer any longer.

Its often a family affair, quite a moving experience I am told, by
those who have attended such endings.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 5:46:20 PM
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<<So, what is the problem? Politicians, or more to the point, religious politicians.>>

Wrong! The problem is politicians, politicians and once more, politicians. Religion doesn't come into it.

If a politician believes that God doesn't want them to commit or assist in suicide, then all they need is to not do it themselves, to not assist others and to not ask for such assistance.

If they feel that they cannot actively be the cause of killing others, then all they need to do is to abstain (or leave the chamber) when voting on euthanasia and assisted suicide takes place.

Commanding others what not to do (or else they be thrown in jail), is abuse of power and has nothing to do with God.
It does however add to the bad reputation of His holy name and the persecution of religion. Shame on them for that!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 7:56:23 PM
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What rubbish you write Yuyutsu, of course politicians are guided by their religion and expect us to fall into line with what is stated in their beloved bible, especially the Catholic politicians, it is not only in the area of VE but other areas such as Gay marriage, they follow their bible God and not the wishes of the 85% of the people who want VE legalised.
If you vote for Tony Abbott in the next election he will make decisions for the rest of us on his Catholic convictions, a true bible basher and believer.
Posted by Ojnab, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 8:36:02 PM
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Exactly right, Yuyutsu!
Assisted suicide will not become a requirement, but an option for those wanting it. Politicians appear to be under the impression that decriminalising assisting suicide is the same thing as legally requiring that people assist suicide. There was the same problem with decriminalising homosexual acts; those opposed were predicting that pretty soon everyone would be forced to become same-sex-oriented. It is sad that most politicians seem devoid of intelligence, common sense, rationality, logic, independent thinking, empathy, objectivity, and concern for anyone except themselves.
Perhaps democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be.
Posted by ybgirp, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 8:40:46 PM
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Dear Onjab,

What makes you assume that all that's written in the bible is religious?

The fact that those politicians delude themselves that this is the case (that everything in the bible is the word of God, etc.) does not make it so, thus their reliance on the bible has little to do with religion. I can understand why THEY fall in that trap, but why should you fall there as well?

As a religious person, I am very concerned about the bad name that those bible-bashers give to religion and to God.

I do not intend to vote for Abbott, but unfortunately in our idiotic electoral system and compulsory preferences, my preference is likely to go to him, because Julia is even worse.

Thank you, Ybgirp.
Posted by Yuyutsu, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 8:58:50 PM
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Yabby, unfortunately not all dying people will be able to lift drinks to their mouths themselves, or in any way assist themselves to die.
Thus, it will be up to others to do it for them.

It is not easy to give someone else a fatal injection or oral medication, especially if they aren't in obvious pain, or if they are chatting to you at the time.

I truly hope voluntary euthanasia is made legal in Australia, but as a nurse, I hope I am never asked to give that final injection because I honestly don't know if I could do it.
Posted by Suseonline, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 9:45:49 PM
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Suze, most people even when extremely ill, can still suck through
a straw. In Switzerland the volunteer group Exit, which is seperate
from the global group with the same name, has a membership of tens
of thousands. They set their own criteria etc. A number of their
members are in fact doctors and when or if members get to the point
where they simply don't want any more chemo, Exit will go to their
home or hospital bed and provide whatever service is required.

So in practise I doubt if they would ever require outside nurses
to address this issue. Personally I would have no problem helping
somebody end their long suffering, if it was asked and it was legal.
Posted by Yabby, Tuesday, 20 November 2012 9:55:04 PM
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Yes I like the sound of that group in Switzerland Yabby, and would be happy to have something like that set up here.

Having assisted dying people for many years and worked hard to alleviate their pain and other symptoms, can I respectfully suggest that it isn't quite as easy as you think to end their suffering so easily. Especially if you have known them for awhile.

There have been several patients over the years though that have stood in my mind as having had such awful symptoms that palliative care teams could not alleviate,
that Literally begged us to 'put me down now', that I may well have been able to do it if it were legal....
Posted by Suseonline, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 12:43:35 AM
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Suze, there have been a number of cases, like the Rossiter case, where people of sound mind are trapped in bodies that don't function. They literally spend all their days, trapped in that body, staring at the ceiling or whatever. Life is very much about perspective. If people forced me, as they force these people, to go on for years and years in that state, I would consider it as torture. Rossiter did
too and that is why he took the case to court. Moving him to Switzerland in his state, was full of complications. The only option that the court gave Rossiter, was to starve himself to death.

That this kind of human torture goes on in Australia, I find absolutatly disgusting. Catholics may well believe that suffering is
noble. They are free to believe that, but it should be my choice, not theirs, if I share that perspective.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 10:57:48 AM
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Well said, Yabby,

Suffering is noble - but not the suffering of others!
Posted by Yuyutsu, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 11:08:22 AM
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It is strange how everyone assumes that doctors and nurses will be involved in assisting the suicide of people who are legally sane and in their right minds. Logically, their nearest and dearest will be the ones to assist them - if they need it, but most don't, as Yabby rightly points out. It is most unfair to expect medical practitioners to become 'executioners'. I certainly would not expect a doctor to do it for me; my best friend has already offered - but I wonder if he was a little too keen.
Posted by ybgirp, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 12:33:58 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me how we cannot allow a person suffering extreme pain and loss of dignity to request Voluntary Euthanasia. When I was eightenn years young and conscripted to National Service I was taught how to kill people with a bayonet, it would have been excrusiating pain to have a bayonet thrust into your stomach or elsewhere, with me yelling at the top of my voice how successful I had been in this act done, thank goodness it never happened, but this is only part of what we were taught, kill, kill and kill. Perhaps I get it wrong somewhere, that war games are OK, kill for all your worth, but to request VE is a complete and utter no no, when someone somewhere is wanting just that ending, how hypocritical we have become.
Posted by Ojnab, Wednesday, 21 November 2012 4:49:36 PM
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