Hello there TONY LAVIS...

I love your quaint turn of phrase...'bring back the biff', you've no doubt had some experience in this field ?

Your comments apropos 'girly little police' or similar, is quite true in part.

Not that many years ago the Police Commissioners Conference determined that police should present as a more friendly, more approachable group, rather than the 'flat nosed', 'no neck' tough guys of yore ?

And do you know what Tony ? It came to pass ? I remember a wise old uniform sergeant once telling me; 'The public get the police force/service they deserve'. So you all wanted the more socially conscience, approachable, and 'touchy/feely' police person, and now you've got 'em ?

When I retired, I went and lived interstate. And it really doesn't matter where one lives on the Eastern Seaboard, the coppers are all the same.

I'll never for a moment defend a 'crook' copper, never ! But by hell, I'll always defend the many thousand of men and women trying to do a really tough gig, and copping all manner of, often unfair criticism, from people who've never worn blue, and know no better.

Back in the late eighties and early nineties, I did some specialized training at Hendon and later, Belfast, Northern Ireland. Don't be so sure what the British Cops do and don't do. The idyllic imagery, of the friendly, smilling Bobby showing you the way, juxtaposed with reality, is very far from the truth. Sadly, but you wouldn't know that ?

Level factual criticism at coppers, and I, and most of those in the job, will probably join you. Coppers are the harshest critics of coppers.

Take care TONY.

Tony Lavis you're starting to sound like some lost academic. They didn't taser that young fellow to death. That is an outrageously nasty/stupid remark. They tried to subdue him which is what has to be done when someone goes off the rails. Something then went wrong & he died. Were the tasers too strong ? Was he tasered too much ? More than likely but had he just walked down the street none of this would have happened. Stop your silly bleeding heart crap & start looking around at some home truths AND start to accept that people need to be responsible for their own actions. The Police is there to protect people from mad/crazy/weirdo?criminal types. They lose any common right once they turn bad. It's only the likes of you want to mollycoddle them with our tax Dollars.

Hi there INDIVIDUAL...

I believe you've captured my sentiments brilliantly, I really do ! You're so right when you assert the coppers don't wish to merely target a person for simply walking down the street.

Some behaviour, something irregular, usually attracts their attention, even then, the last thing they (coppers) wish to do is use force.

Anything constituting 'an action' involves paper...lots of 'paperwork'. And it's really good to be able to conclude a shift without the necessity to complete reams of paperwork, particularly after nightwork.

An excellent appreciation too INDIVIDUAL, of (probably) how it all went down.

Was excessive force used ?...Coroner says, yes. Was this poor bloke subjected to irregular amounts of Taser energy ? Again, the Coroner says, yes.

And, It's my belief (regrettably), the police concerned, should start buying the SMH, if for no other reason than, for the 'Jobs' section.

It would appear (I'm only surmising) - initially, an unfortunate over reaction? Together with some inexperience ? I dunno, perhaps a 'rush of blood to the head' ?

And at the end, we have a poor deceased, unfortunate young bloke. And most probably, four or five coppers - with at the very least, no further career prospects, with a distinct possibility of dismissal.

Moreover, by far the worst feature of this whole sad affair, the unfortunate death of a young man on their conscience for the rest of their respective lives ! No INDIVIDUAL, there's certainly no winners in this one, none at all.

Sounds to me as though tasering could be very nasty for somebody wearing a oacemaker. Anything known about that?

The two major flaws in Tony's argument are:

1 That the person would not have died if tasers were not used.
2 That policemen can without pacification subdue violently intoxicated subjects and suffer no injury.

Firstly, the coroners report did not link the death in any way to the use of tasers. Indications were that his drug ravaged poor health and violent exertions were to blame.

Secondly, there are many policemen injured maintaining the order in Kings Cross and other late night venues due to drunken and drug induced violence.

Hi there SHADOW MINISTER & INDIVIDUAL...

You're both spot on with your summation. There'd be no copper reporting for shift, wanting to go home in the back of an ambulance.

Everyone I've ever worked with wanted to avoid violence at all costs.
But depending on your station, your shift even the squad, violence is sometimes unavoidable. Before I left GD's (uniform) they one job that I (personally) didn't like, was that of domestic violence.

Demo's; a good 'Stink'; even a decent pub blue, were OK as far as it goes. However, domestic violence was something else again. There were never, any real winners. Similarily, no one party was completely wrong. In my book, a tough 'gig' all around. Sorry, I'm off topic.

The events that saw the unfortunate death of that young Brazilian chap, suggests culpability by police. Was it unavoidable ? I don't know, probably ? Excessive force used ? Coroner says yes. Was it the intention of police to give this young fella a lesson, worse a 'dust up', again, I don't know ? And finally, are these police for the departmental 'high jump'...utterly, absolutely, and without doubt.

Cheers...Sung Wu.