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The Forum > Article Comments > It’s time to come clean on Muslims and the west > Comments

It’s time to come clean on Muslims and the west : Comments

By Mohamad Tabbaa, published 26/9/2012

So many people, on all sides, have unanswered questions and are experiencing feelings of anger, confusion, anxiety and frustration.

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I've just read a fascinating -and very relevant to this thread- article on New Scientist:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg21528831.900-warmonger-or-idealist-the-roots-of-human-conflict.html?page=2

The article suggests that in collective cultures, pain felt by anyone identified as being of the same 'tribe' will be felt by others in that tribe, more strongly than in more independent, Western cultures.
Imposed rituals also appear to reinforce and exaggerate this affect.
Frighteningly, these things appear to be, or become, hard wired into the brain:
“...statements such as "I believe in god" or "I am not willing to kill an innocent human being" activated areas (in the brain) that play a role in retrieving rules. This supports the idea that sacred values are processed in the brain as absolute and binding moral commandments...”
As a school child, I remember being astonished to learn of American kids reciting the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. We only dragged out the Australian flag on ANZAC day.
Perhaps we could use more secular rituals, to counter the religious ones; particularly for “new” Australians (both immigrants and the young).
While Americans have always struck me as being excessively patriotic, they have never appeared to be excessively law-abiding or peaceful.
Clearly the wording of any ritualistic pledge needs to be considered carefully.
Posted by Grim, Thursday, 27 September 2012 6:42:31 AM
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"I suggested to Mohamad that he write a follow-up piece listing the grievances of the protesters and Islam in general."

Good. Because I am bemused as to what they can be since there is no impediment against any religion being practiced in Australia.

The only constraint against any religion is that it should not stop other religions being practiced, including the practice of no religion.

This condition is constitutionally protected in Australia by virtue of S.116 of the Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/coaca430/s116.html

The section says:

"The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth."

That is as good as it can get for religions; Australia is nonpareil in respect of giving religious freedom.

Given this, any discussion with the author of this article should be predicated on his heartfelt and genuine gratitude for this right
Posted by cohenite, Thursday, 27 September 2012 8:05:26 AM
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Thanks for the responses.

I have to say I'm not terribly surprised at the tone of the comments, neither in this forum nor on others, which is a shame.

Given the content of the majority of the comments, I think the following suffcies: "There is an opportunity here for discussion. Not the superficial type where everybody comes to the table in the full knowledge that they are absolutely correct and that everybody else must therefore be wrong; not the type where we fill our minds with hysteria about the other side prior to attending the meeting. No. What’s required here is precisely what has been missing for so long in these discussions: honesty"

I set this as the condition for discussion, so there's little point trying to discuss with me while very obviously ignoring that very first step. I suggest you re-read the article with a bit more of an open mind towards difference.

For the few who did ask genuine questions, thank you. The first thing to keep in mind is that I've simply outlined the questions which I feel are important here; I never claimed to have all the answers. I'm simply suggesting that we ask the right questions, and that this might lead to a greater understanding of our current climate. I have my own views on my questions, some of which are found here:
http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/hes-my-brother--why-angry-muslim-youth-are-protesting-in-sydney-20120918-264l1.html

http://newmatilda.com/2012/09/20/whos-afraid-terrorists

http://www.sbs.com.au/podcasts/Podcasts/radionews/episode/233744/-Address-the-reason-for-disaffected-Muslim-youth

Others have also joined the discussion and given their views: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/muslim-western-philosophies-perceptions-are-worlds-apart-20120919-266x7.html?fb_action_ids=509046872458590&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

http://m.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/western-freedom-to-insult-can-look-a-lot-like-hypocrisy-20120924-26haw.html

(cont)
Posted by Mohamad Tabbaa, Thursday, 27 September 2012 9:16:13 AM
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You could check them out (with an open mind) as a way to start. Again, one doesn't have to necessarily agree with the grievances, but at least make an attempt to understand why people are unhappy, rather than throwing insults around. As to the third question of why the public is anxious, I know the popular view, which is being regurgitated here: because Muslims blow things up. I'm asking people to explore a less-simplistic approach as to why they might be anxious (and why Muslims blow things up), especially as a balanced investigation of the issue of terrorism will show that such a fear quickly becomes irrational in light of the figures (Most terror attacks aren't carried out by Muslims). Perhaps there is another reason for the fear and anxciety? Let's explore that possibility.

And it seems some people are confused, which is why they're bringing in things like 'freedom of speech', 'multiculturalism' 'human rights' etc thinking that it defeats my argument. Please don't try to lock me into the left-right divide, you'll only confuse yourself. Questioning the reality of concepts such as multiculturalism is exactly what I'm alluding to; not only of whether it works, but whether we actually had it in the first place. Whether freedom of religion actually protects religion, or instead protects secularism. Whether freedom of speech/expression/protest empowers people against the state, or whether it instead allows the state to appropriate resistance and thus render it ineffective.

I'm basically asking that people do their own research and investigate these questions rather than accept populist theories about evil hate-filled creatures coming to take over the western world. There's probably a little more to it than rage and hate.
Posted by Mohamad Tabbaa, Thursday, 27 September 2012 9:16:53 AM
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Perhaps one of the things that make 'western' people anxious about Muslims, is not that they 'blow things up', but some of the everyday, banal interactions that they have with them.

I myself came across this when I was confronted by a small group of Arabic boys in a public park. The eldest, probably about 12 or so told me on no uncertain terms that I could not near a public building within that park. "It's our culture' he said, 'that's where their women and children are, no men allowed, the womens faces aren't allowed to be seen in public by men'. He firmly planted himself in front of me and was basically giving me orders, in a public park. What a nice little culture warrior. I wondered to myself, what would have happened if I didn't listen and barged through, would he run off with the boys and tell their dads perhaps? What then?

Anyway, I decided not to go further, but the whole incident left a bad taste in my mouth. I respected their cultural practices, but didn't quite feel right to me then and still makes me a little upset when I think about it. That's only a very small incident, which didn't involve blowing things up, but these little things are happening every day to a lot of people, and they add up.

And when a bunch of thugs hold up signs in a public space calling for beheading those who offend their beliefs, well I think it just becomes a bit too much.
Posted by Bugsy, Thursday, 27 September 2012 9:53:00 AM
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Bugsy,

The situation you described is very confronting and far more threatening than a small minority of violent demonstrators-if we allowed that bullying to continue non-Moslems are in danger of becoming an underclass. It appears that the ancient idea of dividing the world into inferior Kuffars and superior Moslems has been brought here. There's already enough pressure from the multiculturalists towards "accommodation and inclusion".

(I'm certainly not suggesting you should have behaved differently, I wasn't there.)

That's why I suggested Moslems should provide a list of grievances, it would be to their advantage as well as ours to see where the line is drawn. Otherwise some Moslems will continue to assume that they can set the agenda in liberal democratic societies.
Posted by mac, Thursday, 27 September 2012 10:52:02 AM
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