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The Forum > Article Comments > Reason has its place, but the human heart yearns for awe > Comments

Reason has its place, but the human heart yearns for awe : Comments

By Brian Rosner, published 18/9/2012

According to Pascal, Christian faith answers our deepest yearnings in the midst of the messiness of life.

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Runner your callous attitude towards fellow human beings, is beyond contempt
Posted by Kipp, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 5:56:12 PM
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<When one believes in an afterlife as many superstitions teach this life can be disregarded as one can be rewarded in heaven>

Thank you David, I've been hammering this point forever.

However: <Atheists know that the mumbojumbo of an afterlife is nonsense. Atheists know that pie-in-the-sky-by-and-by simply isn't so. Death is forever. This life is the only life we have so it is precious>
They "know" no such thing. They are perfectly justified in their disbelief but knowledge is another matter. This is not splitting hairs.
What's lost in some of the above is that Hume's empiricism cannot account for human consciousness, that is not if we are to credit its surmise (reason) as going beyond a kind of working-rationale peculiar to the species. Bumble bees and goldfish no doubt have some kind of concept of their universe, but its laughable to imagine they can infer the depths of "reality" (not just their own reality) from that perspective. How is it we assume the fidelity of our own perspective? Hume devoted his life to empiricism in despair at the passions, but he forgot that the empirical findings of the senses are vetted by the same impassioned mind. The concept of consciousness I canvassed above is compelling (to me), but it's been found wanting recently and there are now numerous analytical thinkers prepared to ponder the possibility of idealistic/spiritual realms to account for it, or at least to not rule them out. How indeed can they be ruled out? Are we in a position to arbitrate? Humans are either inexplicable smart (in which case for atheists the universe is becoming self-conscious, or has that propensity), or irredeemably thick.
I'm sceptical of the former and tend, intuitively, to back the latter, but maybe there's a third option.
As I say, in any event I'm concerned with the hear and now, but sometimes the purveyors of reason seem as narrow-minded to me as their opponents.
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 6:58:40 PM
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Dear Squeers,

There is absolutely no evidence or no reason to suspect that consciousness can exist without the physical brain. There is absolutely no reason to assume that death is not forever. We certainly do not know the mechanism for human consciousness or that of other creatures. We do know that it requires a physical brain.
Posted by david f, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 7:30:25 PM
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"There is absolutely no evidence or no reason to suspect that consciousness can exist without the physical brain"

You're missing the point, David, that we can't account for the humanist, or anthropocentric, mind/brain on empirical/materialist terms, except along reductionist lines that preclude the very sagacity we anoint ourselves in.
I agree there's "no reason to assume that death is not forever"--indeed I rule out all "assumptions"--except the testimony of a great many of our highly intelligent (by human standards) forebears. If we may denounce all of them as deluded in their convictions, why not ourselves?
My point is that there's no reason to assume our powers of reason are decisive, or even reasonable.
"We certainly do not know the mechanism for human consciousness or that of other creatures. We do know that it requires a physical brain".
Do we?
How do we "know" that?
Posted by Squeers, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 8:07:19 PM
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Kenny/Kipp

...Do you suggest I come out from under the alter (boy)? Sorry…I deny any connection! If I were homophobic I would take great offense at some rude imputations being “bandied” around this site.

...No, It is a sad reality that atheists and homosexuals have harnessed themselves together in an advance against Christianity, and more recently Islam.

Squeers: is onto it !

#...On the New Atheist side; they need to be just as suspicious of their vaunted "reason" and its diverted, partisan and/or insidious motivations and political advocacies…#
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 9:43:16 PM
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Well david f: You say…

#...There is absolutely no evidence or no reason to suspect that consciousness can exist without the physical brain…#

You may if you wish, debunk your own flawed theory with some scientific evidence. Darryl Reanney (dec’d), a molecular biologist, proposed a timeless consciousness from scientific proof.

...Two of Reannies’ books worthy a read are:
“The Death of Forever” (A new future for human conciousness)…ISBN 0 285 63271 X (paperback). Maybe “Kindle”?

And..

“Music of the mind”
ISBN 08 5572 2401

...Both books a must-read for all atheists, (and homosexuals too), I believe; before making utter fools of yourselves.
Posted by diver dan, Tuesday, 18 September 2012 10:24:27 PM
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