The National Forum   Donate   Your Account   On Line Opinion   Forum   Blogs   Polling   About   
The Forum - On Line Opinion's article discussion area



Syndicate
RSS/XML


RSS 2.0

Main Articles General

Sign In      Register

The Forum > Article Comments > Australia’s underinvestment in education > Comments

Australia’s underinvestment in education : Comments

By William Isdale, published 23/5/2012

We must accord teachers a salary and standing in our society that gives due regard to the importance and value of their work.

  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. All
As a classroom teacher at the top of scale and 12 years from retirement I am happy with my wage. What makes my job difficult is the lack of resourcing and the meeting the impossible demand of developing my practice and reflecting with my assistant and team within the time allocations we are given. Professional disregard and the general contempt for teachers who do the job day in day out with a minimum of fuss while having to listen to the rest of the world describe us incompetent, underperforming,stupid, self serving and so on. In 12 of teaching I have had to manage 4 curriculum changes! Little wonder we feel like battered mushrooms.
Posted by loadeddog, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 8:19:24 AM
Find out more about this user Visit this user's webpage Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Contrary to the writer and the Grattan Institute report, class sizes do make a difference, for reasons that should be obvious, and we have not wasted money on reducing them. See the Tennessee STAR study (available at http://www.heros-inc.org/).

The Grattan Institute’s claims about increased spending are also nonsense. The spending per student has only just matched economic growth over the period used in the Grattan report. If you go back 20 years, you will see hardly any change in class sizes. I began teaching in 1974 and spent 33 years as a teacher. In only two years did I have classes for the year with more than 25 students in them, most recently way back in 1981.

Nor has the Gonski report been shelved. The government committed $5 million in its last budget to working out the details of implementation. The report is excellent, but it needs some improvements.

A detailed discussion of these points is in my paper, Implementing Gonski, which appears at http://community.tes.co.uk/forums/t/576719.aspx.

A detailed discussion on teacher pay appears at http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=11573&page=0, though you will have to skip a lot of abusive rubbish to get the actual facts.
Posted by Chris C, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 9:45:40 AM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/10/31/whats-wrong-with-education-its-not-teacher-pay/

There is alot more to education then teachers pay, status and
throwing more resources at the question, which no doubt some would
love.

I learnt a great deal from some teachers and not much from others
and it was not what they were paid which was different. Weeding
out useless teachers who love the sound of their own voice, would
be a great start
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 1:52:31 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
Yabby,

I wouldn’t take any notice of the salary comparison on the article you linked to. Using US dollars and purchasing price parity, a teacher in a junior secondary school in Finland was paid $34,707 in the first year, $44 294 in the 15th year and $54 181 at the top of the scale (OECD Education at a Glance 2011). The same teacher in England was paid $32 189, then $47 047 and then $47 047. The Finnish teacher gets more at the start and the end, but less in the middle. The pattern is the same for primary and upper secondary. Then, you have to relate salary to the overall living standards in each country; i.e., not what their salary would purchase in comparison with the salary of someone in another country but in comparison with the salary of someone in a different occupation in that country because it is the latter comparison that affects whether people of high ability in that country enter teaching or not. The OECD also does this by publishing teacher salaries as a percentage of per capita GDP
Posted by Chris C, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 2:08:15 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programme_for_International_Student_Assessment

Chris, one of the linked articles from my first URL, was to this
site. Looking at the 2009 results, if you scroll down, Shanghai
clearly cleaned up.

I was not aware that they have tiny classes or are highly paid.
Posted by Yabby, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 2:33:24 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
If we are under-investing as portrayed; then we should better resource parents, who would then pay much higher school fees, which could be directed at the missing resources. They would also be empowered to vote with their feet; and or, seek excellence? This would inculcate competition, and all that then relies on it, which is after all, the very cornerstone of western style capitalism!
The additional assistance could be means tested and end at incomes above $150,00 per?
[Oh, if only we could all struggle to just barely get by, with that truly tiny amount? Tut tut.]
What we seem to have at the moment is a two tiered education system that progresses the already privileged, all while starving the less well off?
We could do a lot worse than emulate the Finnish system. Which as I understand it, has only a public school system and a truly universal educational standard.
They also have universal suffrage and freedom of worship. Albeit, confined to churches, where they might argue, any entirely unprovable belief system belongs?
It's a system that selectively develops the best and brightest, rather than the most privileged or devout?
And that is the best reason I can think of, for both endorsing and emulating it! Rhrosty.
Posted by Rhrosty, Wednesday, 23 May 2012 3:35:52 PM
Find out more about this user Recommend this comment for deletion Return to top of page Return to Forum Main Page Copy comment URL to clipboard
  1. Pages:
  2. Page 1
  3. 2
  4. All

About Us :: Search :: Discuss :: Feedback :: Legals :: Privacy