David,

Thanks you for the link to
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/peter-singer-doesnt-deserve-an-order-of-australia/.

It brought me - via a link to the article on George Pell - to an interesting article that you probably knew of, (I did not). Maybe others will find it interesting and relevant as well:

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/secular-world-has-a-christian-foundation-20120414-1wzyg.html#ixzz1srojSWAS.

great link george
i posted it here
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=13731&p=105078#p105078

got a great response
[a mate of davids]..except this guy knows his stuff

dont hide and run

explained theo=god
athiests got their name wrong

not athiest
but atheo

George,

There is no doubt that the follow-on from a hegemonic Christian culture is the democratically oriented system we now live under. Many of the personalities in Christian history mentioned in that article produced thoughts that not only had a basis in Catholicism but also more importantly they emanated from a refined idea of humanity. After all, they were mostly, the educated elite.

However, for the sake of using a timeline for convenience, for two thousand years the powerful figures in the Church of Rome in bed with the state kept democracy at bay. The natural rights of people were suppressed by religion until a groundswell of opposition brought about the so called enlightenment.

That is a simplistic view of history, I know, as such notable events as the English Nobles wanting more say in affairs of state leading to the Magna Carta, the French revolution, the American war of Independence, various schisms, religious wars etc finally had the Declaration of Independence, a most important document and one which we have all benefited from, bringing about a greater freedom of expression that beforehand had not been.

So, it can be said we have evolved from a Christian culture but not because of a Christian culture. Two thousand years of religious oppression where dissent more often than not meant personal discomfort to say the least and death at the worst does not support the hypothesis that Christianity is the cause of democracy. Humans would have eventually overcome religious intimidation no matter what that faith was. As past and especially recent history demonstrates, it appears that all dictatorial systems eventually fail.

When Islam finally comes to its senses and has its own enlightenment there will be Muslims saying exactly the same thing. That is, Islam led to democracy. Go figure!

David

its funny david
how what the guy says here
http://forum.worldfreemansociety.org/viewtopic.php?f=198&t=13733

is egsactly what athiests are doing
[forcing them to unite against a common foe[you]

so i rekon your one of them
by pretending nothing cause you arnt using the right word

a/theo-ist
the bigger you get..the more united they must get

go
grow and proper
in time your presure washes away creed
and will force us to get back to basic

god
theo..
so crow [grow and prosper my other..
you serve god will...regardless...

saint david
your name is heraled into the heavens
why fail you to see your greatness..comes from his greatness within?

,

David,

Thank you for your comments. I know, there is no point in arguing with you about these old (I have known them for 60+ years) clichés. Neither did I expect you to share the views of the author, your fellow-atheist. I just found his views worth reading since they show an ability on the side of an atheist to coexist - culturally, intellectually - with people with Christian world-views, rather than an urge to seek argument and confrontations at any level. And thought that perhaps others - atheists or not - might find these views interesting as well.

George,

The perpetuation of myth, especially the myth that Christianity created democracy, needs challenging as it is a powerful weapon used by religious folk, accepted by some atheists, and is plainly wrong.

It is the bad parts of Christianity that needs addressing, not necessarily Christians.

There have been good people throughout history despite religion. Most people are good.

David