Looks like I'm back on the list again. Phew.

But this was a puzzle...

>>As a generalisation, it is so easy to touch a raw nerve with underachieving dysfunctional personalities and have it manifest defensively into a mob mentality<<

I would have thought that "more bluff and bluster" would be more accurate than "a mob mentality".

Although it is just possible Mr Nicholls might not have been referring to himself.

>>One thing I find quite amusing is the lack of embarrassment knowing with whom you are sharing the bed<<

An odd observation. Why would a lack of embarrassment in those circumstances be amusing, or even worth commenting upon? Folk are usually far more embarrassed when they find themselves sharing a bed with someone they don't know. At least, that's how I remember it.

Incidentally, Mr Nicholls, if you do happen to bypass your own list and read this, I thought you should know that I did make the effort to visit the AFA "forum".

What was instantly noticeable was the complete absence of any criticism of you, your operation, its objectives, its achievements etc. Just a whole lot of appreciation for the wonderful job you did setting up the Conventions, as if that is the sole purpose of the organization.

Oh, wait...

The rest was just an ocean of self-indulgent smugness.

Tell me, are you the moderator?

Oh, I forgot. You can't answer, because you're not listening.

at least im not listed
never the less..it may be said im hiding behind a pseudonumb..my full details are exposed on my other link..but im only replying to the demons haunting david..

its not as if he didnt..[or couldnt have known]
that no god means just that[nothing further to say nor prove/disproove]..

but wait
we gotta say something...

oh lets focus on the believers..who pray on the gullible sheep..
and refute anything..and ignore that we dont know either..no one KNOWS..how life 'begat' from nuthin..

ok science has theories
has faked it[putting a..MAN*made..20 bit string of dna
into a LIVING CELL..they didnt make..nor can even to this day replicate[but seriously claim is an evolved 'mud bubble'..[lol]

they cant name nor replicate the ';first life'
cant designate a genus..nor verify..*using dna[evolved dna]
what new genus evolved from the first..

in short at best ya hgot a theory
ya got gullible sheep[having doudts re religion]
;not god as much as their IDEA..of what they think god to be
[or have been deecieved to be]..but that satan clause fear/threat..control system..is on the wayne

so lets set up the godfree alternative
were athiests..we know whats best for you
we got just as many delusions as they..but heck
your too dumb to even begin questioning 'athiest science'

and so the gullible gather at the mighty rivers
[who said ya cant find new ways to skin sheeple]..

money
money
money

dispensation for compensation..
same ol con-stipation...lead me...i know you know
please lead us to the pro-mise lend..your credit to our discredit

and re-education
[mind control]..thats for free
[heck maybe with a tweak..we can pay you..a fee..]?

show us how to be free..
by being bound up in bowel..the new thiesm
neothiesm athism..i wish we could really talk..not just be made to listen..

Though respecting the views of many of the rational independent thinkers on this forum, I find the whole Atheist 'movement' as a lost cause and without 'bite'. In my view most people need something to believe in, not something Not to believe in, and all this religion 'bashing' is really getting quite boring.

Certainly religion needs to move to greater enlightenment and greater relevance to the modern world, with much watering-down of mysticism and of literal reliance on biblical and similar works, but humankind of all ilk and throughout the ages has relied on stories to transmit history and rules for correct conduct and social interaction, and it is the interpretation and implementation which count. We can work with religion of various persuasion to make a better and more inclusive world, but I cannot see pulling the rug out offering anything worthwhile in alternative.

Sectarian violence is certainly a bad look, but who really believes it is actually founded in religious differences rather than in envy, covetousness and a struggle for means and power? Not too dissimilar to political violence, in my view - so should we ban politics? (Or, all of the failings that flesh is heir to?)

Culture, society, religion and endeavour can and do comfortably cohabit, and what is really needed is equity, tolerance and greater equality of opportunity to overcome the real causes of conflict and violence. Perhaps religious teaching of respect for neighbours and for all life has an opportunity and the means to resolve differences and so make a better world, but I fail to see what atheism has to offer in this interest in our current world context. Perhaps in another reincarnation or in another long way off future context?

Rationalism and religion (or spiritual guidance) can and do comfortably coexist for the bulk of humanity, and for so many the one without the other offers only a lesser, and less reliable, less meaningful existence - and a lesser connection with 'community'.

Saltpetre,

That was an interesting post. However, I think the misrepresentation of atheism you are running with is a result of the negativity put onto it by the self-protection process that accompanies all religion.

If we take Australia as an example of a country with a stable political system, a sense of fairness driving politics to a large degree, a reasonably consistent education system although it has its flaws, a good health scheme, hunger and poverty existing on the peripherals but not the norm, we can see how that has been a big influence on at least 50% of the adult population not having a religion. We could argue about the percentage but that only about 7% regularly attend a church is indicative of a majority blasé attitude concerning faith.

These people live meaningful lives in embracing art, science, careers, sport, family, hobbies etc and have no need for religious ideas as such notions are not seen as important.

The percentage I have quoted may be wrong as no one really knows. But there is a percentage that eschews religion and live happy and productive lives.

Atheism is basically saying that all people should have the opportunity to do the same.

This requires the cessation of any particular religious indoctrination being forced onto the young especially by the state. Sure, teach children about religions and how they have played an important role in history.

But using adult authority that a particular religion has to be believed with the threat of eternal torture and promise of everlasting bliss as a way of gathering compliance is ethically unsupportable to anyone who is outside that method.

Atheism is asking that children be given an all-round education without such coercion and then let them choose one or no religion.

David

This is either a simple misunderstanding, Saltpetre, or a form of wilful blindness.

>>Sectarian violence is certainly a bad look, but who really believes it is actually founded in religious differences rather than in envy, covetousness and a struggle for means and power?<<

I can promise you that the folk of Belfast don't just believe, they know without a shadow of a doubt, that the violence on their streets over the past fifty years has been founded upon religious differences. The major complaint back in the fifties and sixties, that one sector of the population was being discriminated against in terms of jobs, housing etc., was even based upon religious beliefs. Protestants got work. Catholics didn't.

Of course, one underlying motivation is always the exercise of power. That is the human condition. But the dividing lines - Catholic vs. Protestant, Sunni vs. Shia, Nazi vs. Jew - are in so very many highly visible cases, based solely upon religion.

An old Irish joke might help.

Sean was walking down a dark street in Belfast when he heard rapid footsteps behind him. Before he could turn around, his arms were pinned and a voice in his ear rasped "So, and are ye Protestant or Catholic, now?" In a trembling voice Sean replied "Actually, I'm Jewish". There was a short pause before the voice said "Sure and y'are. But are you a Protestant Jew or a Catholic Jew?"

Religion has been, and will inevitably continue to be, a major source of violence in the world. And it doesn't matter how many times you attempt to rationalize it as "well, it's all about envy, covetousness and power" nothing will ever change this simple fact.

its good..when we can agree[quote]..""Atheism is asking..that children be given an all-round education..without such coercion""

ie..no god is asking...lol..round/education..""and then
let them choose..one*..or no religion.""

mate i chose..bits from them all
im not chosing one..prefering none

but NO GOD..redefines itself further

""If we take Australia../..a sense of fairness
driving politics..to a large degree""

lol
no..self intrest/first foremost..
[my prophet/text/creed/rite..;right or wrong],
alp is a religion/greens is a creed..lib/nat..thats just self intrest[greed]

..""a reasonably consistent[?]education system*
a good health scheme*,..,/hunger/poverty..we can see how that
has been a big influence..on at least 50%.of the adult population""

its like a new preacher/lalking in parrables
but essentially not seing the tre for trees

50%[min]""..not having a religion.""

sop how does that link to no god[fullstop][@thiest]

""We could argue about the percentage
but that only about 7% regularly attend a church..is indicative of a majority blasé attitude concerning faith.""

yeah take juliar
still got that moral hangover
dont do church..but still indoctrinated..by many divergent creeds


These[hungry/poor..no godders]..""live meaningful lives
in embracing art,..science,..careers,""

oh dear...thiests dont got that
lol

but wait..more..meaningless lives..
doing meaningfull things..""sport,family,hobbies etc

and//..''//thus david feels..
""have no need for religious ideas""

stop multitasking you lot
ya dont need that..
we gave you sport..sport[siort is ol speak for mutation]

but dig-on digger

""as such notions..*are not seen as important.""

says the blindman

addendumb..""The percentage I have quoted
may be wrong..as no one really knows.""

yet that wont stop you telling us..
even though..you got no clue either[not god]

""But there is a percentage
that eschews religion..and live happy..and productive lives.""

till that one day
eternity lies before them
and all they can concieve..[from lifes teachings],is lies/delusion

but heh..
lets redefine athism again..lol