And your point is?

I see. So now Julie you are wrapping yourself in the Australian flag after ANZAC day and warning of the terrible cost of war but continuing your aggressive posturing towards Iran that has not invaded anyone for over 200 years? Look at what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan and then, quite simply, shut up!

Julie, what I find interesting is the complete lack of mention the forays into Iraq and the disaster continuing to unfold in Afghanistan.

As a long-serving Liberal parliamentary member you would have been in an excellent position to curtail or stop Australia's interventions into both of these countries, which have conclusively been based on false premise.

A little hypocritical of you to mention WW I and II, Korea, yet you fail to discuss Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, all three wars predicated on US hegemony.

Our recent involvement in Iraq, initiated by the Liberal government was a complete humanitarian disaster for the people of Iraq and has led to the complete destabilisation of the country.

Our on-going involvement in Afghanistan is ineffective and no matter what you claim, another humanitarian disaster. Afghanistan politics and rule is based on a tribal theme, no-one can solve the issues that run deep and are based on thousands of years of history.

Al-Qaida or whatever you want to call the so-call terrorists was made up by the US military-political-industrial complex to continue US hegemony after the fall of the cold war.

Money and power are the drivers of these misguided forays, unfortunately Australia has blindly followed the US into these conflicts with little understanding of why. Now we have US troops moving into the NT, what's next?

Wars are invariably caused by just a few hostile "politicians", with their hands on the levers of national power! Why, madman/strongman Stalin, presided over the death of more of his countrymen post-war; than all those killed in WW11, 27 million!
Even so, the lessons of history include the fact that there is simply no way to appease psychotic tin pot despots like Herr Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin and a whole host of modern day equivalents? North Korea, Iran, Syria?
Moreover, the price of peace is eternal vigilance! One can conclude with the observations that those who are mostly against war; are those like our soldiers, who have to fight them, often at as outlined, great personal sacrifice!
In the colour of war, a GI D-day veteran, concluded as he saw/helped with the release of extremely emaciated non-combatant civilians from Nazi prison camps; that some wars were completely justified; and completed his tour of duty, by taking no prisoners? Ditto Anzacs pushing back Imperial Nippon?
Another study revealed that as many as 70% of soldiers aim deliberately high and or, come back as survivors, permanently psychologically harmed?
All while the pious protected hypocrites, who never ever have to fight, helped put them in harms way, or simply stood still, when other options were available to them; wax lyrical on the horrors of war?
Good men only need stand and do nothing for evil to prosper.
Quote unquote. Rhrosty.

"All while the pious protected hypocrites, who never ever have to fight, helped put them in harms way, or simply stood still, when other options were available to them; wax lyrical on the horrors of war? Good men only need stand and do nothing for evil to prosper."

A good quote.

I was proud to attend the Dawn Service yesterday wearing my medals and those of both my grandfathers, received in the service of my country and theirs at the time (UK).

I left the military following my awakening to knowledge and experience that our recent political/military forays at the behest of the US into countries that posed no threat to me, my family or country was only going to escalate and for no genuine purpose.

Iraq and Afghanistan, and the soon to be televised Syrian and Iranian efforts are at the behest of governments and their energy giants; it’s all about access to cheap energy.

Unreported in the main-stream-media is the undisputable fact that those fighting in Syria (against the Syrian government) are being supported and funded by the CIA, Mossad and a number of middle eastern fascist states (Qatar and Saudi Arabia) to further entrench US hegemony and their access to the worlds rapidly declining sources of cheap oil and gas.

Julie Bishop should hang her head in shame along with the rest of our complicit politicians.

Julie and Julia are both promoters of war as are the U.S., Britain, etc. WW2 was a just war but all of those since have been wars of choice and millions have been killed.

Passionate and tearful words on ANZAC DAY do not sweep under the carpet the horrors wrought by Western Imperial Powers since WW2.

I find their hypocrisy sickening!

www.dangerouscreation.com

I am tired of seeing politicians laying wreaths or crying crocodile tears on television regarding lives lost in wars now & past,these are the very people who send all personnel in the Army,Navy,and Airforce and cause the loss of civilian lives in countries through war,why do they do this when they are the perpetrators of death to all

Of the 500 US Congressmen only one had a son in active duty during the Gulf War.It is all about raising the bravado levels so pollies can bathe in the sunlight.

As General Smedley Butler said in 1930,"War is a racket." Those who promote it are disgusting murderous criminals.

David G,

Nodoubt war is horrible.

But idea of a 'just' v 'unjust' war not as simple as you say.

With prospect of dangerous weapons, and some rogue states appearing most intent to use them, there may indeed be more conflicts you dissaprove of.

I was listening to US public radio last night, and they were now indicating a possibility of action against Iran given concerns about cyber terrorism and that state's capacity and intent to use it.

I don't think any powerful state, whether it be the US or someone else, is just going to sit back and let things unravel before responding.

Yes, it is frightening, but it is also reality.

Chris, that 'war is reality' is what we've been indoctrinated to believe. It surprises me that you help to spread such ridiculous indoctrination!

DAVID G you are correct,the USA is very much a rogue state as much as any where else,the politicians there love war as long as they are not fighting it themselves. Royalty and politicians go hand in hand with wars, take a look at Gallipoli and previous wars

No, i never support war. Rather I understand why it occurs.

Sure, i may sound crude and simple with my support of the West, but that is the judgement I make, rightly or wrongly, after many years of thinking about the issues. I will never be one of those academics that make everything sound like a lovefest if only we did this and that.

I just ask you from what you know of history, just which nation would have filled the world leadership void if Britain and the US had not done so in the last two centuries.

Are you sugggesting that we would have been better offf without them?

And despite their many wrong actions, do you not recogise the benefits of liberal ideas over totalitarian or other extreme ideologies? Do you not see the flaws of govts who deny people their voice?

As one reader suggests, we have to make hard choices about our allies and Aust would not be alone in choosing the US. Perhaps you could make a list of China's closest allies?

Maybe write a piece for OLO and show us why things would be better without Western influence. Maybe your facts can convince me.

Chris Lewis I don't think you do understand why wars happen.The Bankers backed bothsides of WW1 and WW2.They made money loaning $ billions to all sides and make even more creating money from nothing to finance the reconstruction.Thwe debt they put germany into after WW1 enabled the rise of Hitler.Many in the British/USA elite wanted to emulate Hitler's philosophy, but Hitler got too ambitious.Both world wars were engineered and so have most of the others because of the power/profit motive.

Prescott Bush( Grandfather of George Jr) was on the Board of the Union bank,it was shut down because it was caught laundering NAZI money.Senator John Kerry has $60 million invested in arms manufacturing.

There is big money to be made in war.Oil can be stolen rather paid for as in Iraq.This is why they want to invade Iran.We only paid attention to East Timor when they found oil there.That oil did not make prices cheaper here.Only the big oil companies make the real profits.

There have been many references made by prominent US Presidents about the dangers of the Military,Industrial Complex which we continue to ignore.

Arjay, yours is a great comment. Most people can't see that the America of today is not the America of 1945 when, after waiting for almost two years, it entered WW2.

Since then, it has become a nation that is like Germany. It invades and occupies, builds military bases, then steals scarce resources. And Australia is its partner!

Australians should hold their heads in shame to be part of American imperialism. It's a shame that Chris can't see this.

Arjay & David, great to see some people can see beyond what the press & television want you to believe, it is always a one sided story with them to keep the masses quiet, America followed by Australia have a lot to answer for regarding world problems,especially where oil is located , causing invasion of countries the best way to control it,when will the masses wake up to the propaganda we are told which is lies and more lies

Arjay
"I don't think you do understand why wars happen.The Bankers backed bothsides of WW1 and WW2.They made money loaning $ billions to all sides and make even more creating money from nothing to finance the reconstruction.Thwe debt they put germany into after WW1 enabled the rise of Hitler.Many in the British/USA elite wanted to emulate Hitler's philosophy, but Hitler got too ambitious.Both world wars were engineered and so have most of the others because of the power/profit motive."

So what's the reasoning behind the other 50,000 or so wars throughout history?

I am afraid your "humanitarian" or utopian "one world government" fantasies cloud your judgement.
You need to think further back in the causal chain rather than just blaming money and bankers.
The reality is that human beings form tribes or groups based on shared ideals. When you have a number of different groups with their own ideas of what they consider to be right and wrong, then a certain amount of friction between these groups will always be present. In the worst cases you have war, but even in the best of cases there always is resistance to ideas that is believed not to be in the best interest of the group.
To cease conflict you would have to stop people from thinking, because thinking leads to judgement, judgement leads to division, division leads to conflict.
I am not saying conflict can't be minimized, but it can never be eradicated. Even yourself, Arjay, if you were honest enough to admit it, that you too have set yourself up in conflict to the capitalists, bankers, America etc.

Aristocrat, you say: 'To cease conflict you would have to stop people from thinking, because thinking leads to judgement, judgement leads to division, division leads to conflict.'

It's a neat little explanation but it leaves out the use of war to make profit, to gain scarce resources, to gain strategic advantage, to dominate and control other nations or indeed the whole world (as is America's intention).

No thinking person would arrive at the conclusion that war achieves anything besides creating death, destruction and hatred. History proves that conclusively.

David G.
"It's a neat little explanation but it leaves out the use of war to make profit, to gain scarce resources, to gain strategic advantage, to dominate and control other nations or indeed the whole world (as is America's intention)."

So your solution to end all wars is ...?
While it might be a nice warm fuzzy feeling that all conflict will end if we could just do way with profit, gaining resources, and attempting to control other nations. You might live the fantasy that if we could just do away with the USA then wars will cease, unfortunately you leave out the very thing that causes all this ... the human being. Regardless of nationality, human beings desire, they judge, they want possessions, they form groups, they fight for sex, they dislike things and people etc. This is old news. The Buddhists figured this out thousands of years ago, as did Heraclitus. However, it seems even in a post-Enlightenment stage some still live the utopian fantasy of perpetual peace.
As I said, conflict can be managed and limited, but never eradicated.

Aristocrat, what most people call thinking is actually indoctrination. Indoctrination begins at birth and continues throughout our lives. Parents indoctrinate their children, then teacher do, then television does the same heavily funded by the Corporations.

If people were taught to think and question rather than blindly accept indoctrination, then war would vanish overnight (no sane person could condone war). And so would the oligarchs, politicians, Church leaders, billionaires, inequality, etc.

We need to employ a new paradigm, use our intelligence for a change.

Don't be defeatist!

David G, you keep mistaking the effect for the cause.
Your utopian fantasies mean little in the world of biological and cultural realities.