It's a shame this author has combined a call for teaching philosophical thinking with his campaign against religion, as commitment to atheism is completely unnecessary to his argument and will inevitably create opposition to it.

The Philosophy for Children program has better evidence than any other comparable program I know of as a way of improving the depth and quality of thinking in school children. It certainly has better evidence than any history curriculum.

However, given the knee jerk approach to curriculum that has governed Australian decisions in recent times, such a rational basis for the curriculum is not likely to prevail.

john makes the basic [sic*]con-fusion

""maybe you can stand one more quote, this time from the introduction to the second edition of Terry Lane's book, "God; the Interview """

the headline reads god
religion got nuthin to do with god

noting that this attacks religion
not god

""where he writes, in 2004, after 9/11
and other religion inspired major terrorist events;!""

to wit not god

clever?..my butt
5%...more clever...[lol]?
via public school...[lol

in sydney right?
them durn middle class
in public school/../[in good areas]!

privledged
by starting up with a better class..of kids in class

but back to religion insanity
being blamed on god

after 911
[a cia/mossad operation]
that set up patzies..[many of whome yet live]

the only steel frame buildings ever..to fail
by fire/plane damage..bigger planes bigger fires..didnt bring dow buldings

just three
in all of histry\within hours of each other
owned by the same person[ok maybe leased by the same person]

who happend to have a 99 year lease
on conmdition of clearing out asbesus
[but no insurior would underwrite it]

so he tok out not one
but two insurances against planes hitting his buildings
getting two huge opayoff's and a soon to be new building for the rest of his leasse
\
so via an israel insuarnce.[that payed off immediatly..thus forcing 'underwriters to pay out too]and yes a bush boy was doing swecurity over the buildings'renovations'..where the steel beans were wrapped in demolition cord

just after this huge lie
by police

"If there is one thing we have learned..in the past ten years
it is that as long as the religion delusion persists and flourishes just so long we will live in peril."

yes it seems to be
your being distracted
away from the true dangers
of a dumbed down education system

get educated
read 'dumbing down ..the american education system'

there are of course a few version's of it..
as agents of dissinfo will do

but get this
god isnt in any church
his throne..lies within..everyliving thing
\
that ye do to the least
you did 'to him'

This article started off in the right direction but then lost its way with digressions into religion etc. There is much that is wrong with our educational system. What is lacking is a willingness to tackle the problems., of which religion is only a tiny fraction.

We could do worse than looking at the Finnish experience. Some years ago they were concerned that Finland was falling behind in the world ecucational tables (just like Australia is now). They embarked on major reform. Finlnd now ranks in the top five countries on just about all standardized international measures.

There is not the space here to detail the reforms that were undertaken. Details are readily available for those willing to look and learn. I will however mention a few that are relevant to the points the author was seeking to make.

1. The classes are not streamed.
2. 30% of children receive extra help in their first nine years of school.
3. All teachers have a Masters degree and their study for that is fully subsidized.
4. There are 10 applications for each available place and only the top 10% get into teacher training.
5. The school system is 100% state funded.

Among the results of this system are that 93% of students graduate from high school and 66% go on to tertiary education.

The information is known in Australia as to how we can achieve these sort of results. What is lacking is the political will to overcome the deadening influence of the vested interests and actually implement policies that work.

...Ahhh, OUG, as usual an intriguing post that mixes the "whisps" of religion with conspiracy theory:

But the profundity of your post lies in this stated simplicity:


“that ye do to the least
you did 'to him' ”

And the reason for the above? :

“god isnt in any church
his throne..lies within..everyliving thing “

..."truth of life is"... "life IS God"!... On this point I'am sure, we happily and mutually conspire!

James O’Neill:

...I couldn’t help smiling while reading your post: There begs a question; Of all the people “out here” with the answers, why are we ignored by the political class with all the power and all the money?

Dear Diver Dan,

For the reason suggested in my final paragraph. The "deadening influence of vested interests". These include but are not limited to the teacher unions; the religious organisations that run their parochial schools; and a political class that is manifestly brain dead, for which there are many examples in public policy.

What OUG is talking about ie 911,is not theory.It is scientific fact.http://www.ae911truth.org/ Few on this blog or others ,have the knowledge,courage or ability to debate these facts.

The scientific proof of explosives being used is absolute and over whelming.This is in addition to the hundreds of anomalies and co-incidences which have accured before ,during and since 911.

Once you have viewed the evidence,anyone with half a brain would know the truth.

thanks all
[its a relief..to have nice/feelings]

yes..god lives within/us all
simply trying..to love other..can heal everything

but some..have huge things..to forgive
like those who did..that earth changing event/911

that bought terror..[and..the latest bogie..
following the nips/grouts/ruskiestowelheads..the insanity of labling..others as terrorist..while your freedom fighting*..[after you win]

no death..can honour..the god of life*

so much..the schools should be teaching
[re the horro.. of endless war
because it makes great income$$$

[heck ya heard..we going to spend..36 BILLION..building a new sub...but..lol..to get it built..at that price we should have started..months ago!@

who is geting..the intrest
govt spent it

why dont schools teach it
use it..as a lesson..*what not to do!

so no fool..can ever do it..*again

look at the fruit

3000 dead ended up..killing 200,000 iraquis
it was saudies that flew the jets
[and bin lid ..worked for cia
from afganastan..]

not for nuthin
[except spending the bailout funds
on installing airport security..and other 'security spending''

and of course MORE FUNDING FOR WAR!..plus
reconstuctionj and cash/flow..for cronies

dic*traiters..are only the figure head
for greedy leeches..sucking our life blood..for war spoil

the pentagram[sorry pentgone]..is about big business
selling product!..influence/control..[under war/powrs]

installing the few
to lord it..over the wealth*..[work/invention]rights..of the many

minorities globally
[supporting and sustaining
the war securioties/intel and

money/securities/finance/insurance/super divisions

indonesia..ruled over by 3 islands..of java...

the elite..lording it over the saudies...
that mob lording..it over that grand prikkz
the list of old..and new dictraiters..grows even today

as fast as the old die
a new mate[figurehead]..jumps in..to steal the majority blind

time the rich payed their own way!

no middle class welfare..no private nutrhing subsidy
no fuel subsidies,..govt buying water?...lol

a world going insane
AT LEAST LET THE KIDS KNOW the truth*

let schools..rule over their school district
sack all govt..and let kids tell public service*s..what needs doing!

let the school..[kids]..do the study
and rule over..!their school district[no govt]..just servants

NEED ANYTHING..go to a school
our govt/services..are there..a docter/local hospital
old people's/home..fire brigade

EVERYTHING GOVT..is..*at any school!

lobby the kids online
they will sort it out..at school

foreign..AID?
>>>JUST build PROPER education CENTERS/..school's..

let the kids teach..the new rules

John might call the evolution religion smart but it does not allow for thinking or questioning of its unproven dogmas. Seems like he is another 'skeptic'trying to make a name for himself writing this rubbish. Maybe he would like to see the whole nation dumbed down to the level of those schools that only sprout the evolution fantasy. How closed minded can you get.

runner,
The evidence for evolution is far stronger than you are prepared to acknowledge. Read the chapter, "A Room full of bones" from Robert Ardrey's "African Genesis". That is now an old book but it describes in detail the work of the Australian anatomist Raymond Dart working at the Witwatersrand University in South Africa.

The progressive evolution of the hominid tending apes from Australopithecus afarensis though A. africanus to Homo habilis to H. ergaster and eventually to early Homo sapiens is exceedingly well evidenced.

The Hubble telescope has recorded the arrival of light from galaxies as they existed 17.7 billion years ago and the earth only formed when that light was two thirds of the way to our solar system. Human beings only arrived on the scene when that light had completed 99.99% of its journey.

As the influence of the enlightenment has spread violence and other criminal behavior has declined substantially.

Get over it. Human beings are only one (very late) possibility of all the possibilities of carbon chemistry and we are insignificant. That doesn't stop us being worthwhile in our own right. Any sensible human being aims to leave the people and their environment better off that they were before his or her own brief sojourn.

re;
The Hubble telescope has recorded the arrival of light from galaxies as they existed 17.7 billion years ago and the earth only formed when that light was two thirds of the way to our solar system. Human beings only arrived on the scene when that light had completed 99.99% of its journey.
A typo escaped me in the above. It should read 13.7 billion.

Astronomers have no idea what exists right now at the extreme distances of space but they do know that at 4.5 billion light years others stars and planets were coming into existence just when our sun and our planet were forming from hydrogen agglomerations and supernova debris. If any of those other stars were very much larger than our sun those large stars will have already have completed their life cycles.

Talking about a clever country.

Subject: Fw: Said to be written by a 21 year old woman........ ?

"The problems we face today are there because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living"

This was written by a 21 yr old female who gets it. It's her future she’s worried about and this is how she feels about the social welfare system that she’s being forced to live in! These solutions are just common sense in her opinion.

Nov 18, 2011

Put me in charge . . ..

Put me in charge of WINZ food grants. I'd get rid of cash for potato chips or chocolate, just money for 50kg bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Healthcare. The first thing I'd do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing.Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

Put me in charge of compulsory job search. In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the “common good..

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND While you are on Gov’t subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest.....You will vote for a ‘welfare’ Govt. only. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Gov’t welfare check. If you want to vote, then get a job.

.

>>John might call the evolution religion smart but it does not allow for thinking or questioning of its unproven dogmas.<<

Epic fail. All science including evolutionary theory allows for questioning of its unproven dogmas. That's how science works and it's why scientific theories develop over time: scientists are constantly questioning their unproven dogmas and weeding out the ones which don't match the evidence. You might not like it when those unproven dogmas conflict with yours: nevertheless that's how it works.

Cheers,

Tony

'scientists are constantly questioning their unproven dogmas and weeding out the ones which don't match the evidence. '

Sure Tony that is why so many evolutionary frauds stayed in text books for so long. Dream on man, those that want to deny the obvious will continue to convince themselves that the farytale of evolution is true and even more deceiving that somehow it has contributed to the betterment of society. Keep up the faith for many more have lost it.

runner,
Please provide details of one evolutionary fraud which you consider is still in the current Theory of Evolution.

As Tony has said, if the evidence shows that some aspect is suspect that aspect is re-examined and if necessary dumped, just as scientists using newly developed dating methods allowed the Piltdown hoax (in reality a well planned practical joke) to be was shown for what it was.

I offered evidence in my last comment and as usual you ignored it. At least I read or have read the literature of those I think are on the wrong track.

Foyle I read your last post as a joke. Surely you would not fall for such foolishness.

'Human beings only arrived on the scene when that light had completed 99.99% of its journey.
A typo escaped me in the above. It should read 13.7 billion.'

You must of been laughing when you wrote this nonsense.

>>Foyle I read your last post as a joke<<

I don't get it. Modern humans appear in the fossil record just under 200,000 years ago. I crunched the numbers with the 17.7 billion and corrected 13.7 billion figure and got the same result: 99.99% for both of them - you need more decimal places to see the difference in the two figures. There's nothing wrong with Foyle's maths: so what's the big joke?

>>Sure Tony that is why so many evolutionary frauds stayed in text books for so long. Dream on man, those that want to deny the obvious will continue to convince themselves that the farytale of evolution is true<<

Damn it Runner: you're onto us. The truth is that the theory of evolution is a just big conspiracy cooked up in 1947 between the CIA, the KGB, the Freemasons and a secret order of Catholic warrior-monks who drink the blood of their enemies when they celebrate the Eucharist. I know some poor deluded fools will protest that history records that Sir Charles Darwin popularised evolutionary theory somewhat prior to 1947: this just serves to demonstrate Henry Ford's adage that history is more or less bunk. The theory was invented to obfuscate a shocking truth: that man is not the product of natural evolution. We are the genetic engineering project of an advanced race of alien beings. To them we are little more than laboratory mice. They continue to observe us from their home on Venus and occasionally they visit us to build some pyramids or to abduct and anally probe drunk rednecks.

TBC

It was on such a visit that one of their flying saucers crashed in July 1947 near Roswell, New Mexico. The conspirators met shortly thereafter: for many years they worked to protect the secret and Roswell was the last straw. They needed a great idea to distract the masses from the truth: evolution was that idea. With the use of mind control technology obtained from the Venusians they set about systematically brainwashing the world's entire scientific community into believing that a fictional theory supposedly invented in the 19th century by a British naturalist was a well accepted principle of biology. The rest is history: the biologist were duped into not properly examining the evidence and the truth about our Venusian creators remains a closely guarded secret.

Or maybe not. At any rate my silly conspiracy theory is still more credible than your silly theory that evolution is a conspiracy invented by atheists in order to obfuscate the truth about Creationism and thus somehow - I have no idea how because you've never made that part clear - bring about the downfall of society.

Atheists didn't develop evolutionary theory: biologists did. Many of those biologists would have been or are religious including a lot of Christians. So much for evolutionary theory being the invention of heretics. Many of the people who accept evolutionary theory are Christian: so much for evolutionary theory leading people into heresy.

It is one thing to argue that evolutionary theory is wrong and Creationism is right. It's quite another to argue that evolution is some sort of deliberate lie cooked up by shadowy Godless conspirators to hide the truth: where is your evidence for such a claim?

Cheers,

Tony

tony havnt noted you on the other topic
http://forum.onlineopinion.com.au/thread.asp?article=13479&page=0

so how about it
willing to give it a go
name names reveal mechanisms that evolve..species..of one genus
into speciers of another[science hasnt ever done it]..certainly makes no claim to have evolved and new genus from other genus

so how come you teach THEORY as fact?

come talk about genus evolution
the joke built on species micro evolving around..
within..their genus gene's

please name the first 'life'[by genus]
what it evolved into..[the lol..2de genus]
and supply the dna proof

the egsample pulled from the hat
at the suddenly silent topic..was a mustard plant
that refutes taxonominc clasification[dna testing has refuted only 90% of what formerly was called..'the genus Arabidopsis""

which now..has ONLY nine species
and a further eight subspecies..recognised.

you cant miss the list of stuff found to be..NOT genus arabidopsis
that seems to have stopped others from wanting to play with me

come tony
play with me?

James O'Neil I agree with most of your comment except that, in your opinion, all politicians are brain dead? I disagree on two grounds, first you have to grow a brain in order to witness it's demise; the second is the thing that is dead with regard to education is basic common sense? Here I submit its obituary

Today we morn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as knowing when to come out of the rain, why the early bird gets the worm, life isn't always fair, and maybe it was my fault.
Common Sense lived by by simple, sound financial policies [don't spend more than you earn] and reliable parenting strategies [adults not children, are in charge]. His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place.
Reports of a six-year old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, worsened his condition. Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job they themselves to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer Panadol, sun lotion or a band aid to a student-- but could not inform the parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion. Common sense lost the will to live as the ten commandments became contraband, churches became businesses, and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Obituary continued:
Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar can sue you for assault.
Common Sense finally gave up the will to live after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap and was promptly awarded a huge settlement. Common Sense was preceded in death by his parents, Truth and Trust; his wife, Discretion; his daughter, Responsibility; and his son, Reason. He is survived by three stepbrothers; I know my rights, Someone else is to blame, and I am a Victim.
Not many attended his funeral because so few realised he was gone. If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing. Anon. Submitted by Rhrosty.

Runner
For your own sake, please stop commenting. Everyone is laughing at you.

Before anyone posts again in denial of evolution can I suggest that they visit, read and deeply consider the information at
http://humanorigins.si.edu/
This site is the Smithsonian Institution in Washington DC.
If you think the present Theory of Evolution is not firmly established by substantial evidence you are in effect calling every scientist who has contributed to the information on the site a conniving liar and that is one thing they are not.
Occasionally one scientist might head of on a wild goose chase but when contrary evidence is confirmed that scientist will withdraw his hypothesis and may be somewhat embarrassed.
GlenC has commented about runner but I wish to make that comment more general.
Denying verified evidence makes you look rather dimwitted when the only support you can offer is your faith that what was written by the ancients, and claimed to be the word of their god, was the last word on any topic.

It really is a bit hard to deny evolution, if you look at the history of our antibiotics.

With the short life span of microbes giving them the ability to rapidly evolve, one after the other of our miracle drugs become ineffective very quickly, as their target microbes evolve & become first resistant, then immune.

This is a simple example of evolution, speed up to microbe speed, & is pretty convincing evidence to me.

hasbeen/quote..""It really is a bit hard to deny evolution,
if you look at the history of our antibiotics.""

and you give an egsample
but yet again..no evolution..OUT of microbe!

ever

""With the short life span..of microbes
giving them the ability to rapidly evolve,""

within their parental genus!
microbes BREED microbes..gee go figure

but your big evoluion claim;
..is microbes..<BREEDING something ELSE!

not a microbe!

""one after the other..of our miracle drugs
become ineffective very quickly,..as their target microbes ...LOL
..micro..""evolve & become first resistant, then immune...""
BUT STAY MICROBE

not one NOT microbe
has ever been recorded/observed..
to have evolved one dot away from 'microbe'..*NUTHIN*

*EVER*!
name names

""This is a simple example of evolution,""

yes its called micro evolution[within genus]
but macro evolution..AS YOU LOT HOLD
means microbes breeding mice!

""speed up to microbe speed,
& is pretty convincing evidence to me""

yes me too and darwin
THUS HE WROTE;;'evolution of species*

not evolution of genus!

a scientist KNOWS its not the same
word choice is everything!

One general mistake is, that current policy in most countries in the world does refuses spreading the goal "Clever Country" over those grown ups, who make policy or are in political responsibility. If people read in Germany, the government's head (Mrs. Bundeskanzlerin Angela Merkel, PhD in Physics) visited an "carbon-dioxide-free town", which never will exist in our mutual athmosphere, or if other leading or politicians speak about "gene free seeds" or say "CO2-consumtion" meaning "CO2-emission" and most people will read that cruel nonsense each as true, then the problem of a "Clever Country" must not be explored only in the youngest generation.

A policy for cleverness appealing to elder generations cannot be constructed with the same schemes as that for the younger. Waiting for those people to join lessons, seminars and workshops, may be as a part of a "cultural offer", will not be effective. Not a cultural offer but a cultural attack is overdue. The makes it necessary, to "sell" this policy in the same way, as a honorable (!) insurance representative would do at everybodies appartment door. The difference between both is, that the success of this kind of policy offering information, which was not learnt in school, has been forgotten or was no subject of earlier curricula, is based on a fundamental public interest.

May be, many politicians will not agree to such a policy, because it could enable people, not to believe nonsense in politicial speech, but detecting it as nonsense and assessing the eligibility of politicians by this political uses of incomprehensibility as abuse of citizens' actually missing knowledge.

GlenC

'Runner
For your own sake, please stop commenting. Everyone is laughing at you.'

If they had any humility they would be crying at the billions spent on trying to prove a ridiculous fairytale. They also laughed at those who pointed out the many frauds used to try and verify this failed theory. Everytime a scientist looks at design (everyday) they really have to closer their eyes in order to hold to the faith. Never mind the once millions and now billions of years will keep changing and when the current crop go to the grave a new lot will change the story.