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The Forum > Article Comments > Peak oil, economic growth and the big lie > Comments

Peak oil, economic growth and the big lie : Comments

By Michael Lardelli, published 11/4/2012

The ‘Big Lie’ of our economic system is that anyone can get rich.

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Kaep; What ?

Boylsey;
Ahh yes I read an interesting article about the physcology of people
who when faced with something that is a total change to everything that
they have known or experienced in their past, will simply not want to
know anything about it.

Airline people apparently behave like this as it just seems impossible
to them that the airlines could just fade out and close.
Alan Joyce of QANTAS appears to understand what they are facing which
is why Qantas is involved in the biofuel experiment.
It is clutching at straws.

A truck driver I spoke to once about this, just dismissed the problem
with a wave of the hand and said, "Something will come along."

The silver bullet that everyone hopes will come along and save our
souls may just not be there.
Short of cold fusion, there just does not seem to be a solution to
the substitution of transport fuels. Some state that there are good
chemical and physical reasons for this, ie there can be nothing with
a greater energy density than hydrocarbons such as oil.

I guess a molecular scientist could explain that.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 16 April 2012 9:00:02 AM
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Boylsey,

What ??

Just because you THINK you've got a future, doesn't mean its so!

There are far too many 'big lies' you require to give you a finite pitiful future on a finite planet with essentially infinite humans with infinite aspirations all in the final analysis based on hidden nuclear weapons (think: How is big brother America our defence against an easy Asian Takeover). Only a woman could possibly believe her children are not contributing to that lunacy. And the 2LT is the only reliable guage to sustainability, NOT anti-democratic globalised economic theory.

What's more I know you know it. Ever see the movie Angel Heart!

What indeed!
Posted by KAEP, Monday, 16 April 2012 9:55:45 AM
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Bazz....

Biofuels, solar voltaics, solar thermal, wind energy and geothermal energy could all potentially be viable energy sources for the future........the silver bullet........but absolutely not for all 7 billion of us currently alive on planet earth.

If our civilisation is to be fueled by these energy sources then it will have to be substantially smaller than it currently is along with our economy and all our individual aspirations.
Posted by Boylesy, Monday, 16 April 2012 12:02:55 PM
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I can't avoid the conclusion that, with our current global population, democracy (as currently practised in the west) is imcompatible with long term sustainability.

It seems that at every turn, the throngs of individual aspirations always seem to overwhelm collective common sense that our political systems should be pursuing.

And as a result our civilisation lurches ever closer to that cliff edge.

Some how we are going to have to modify our democracy so that mass individual aspirations cannot overwhelm collective common sense as it applies to the long term survival of our civilisation.

That will almost certainly mean far less individual freedom and say in the way our nations are governed. But then our individual freedoms are being gradually eroded as the population builds anyway - for example consider local government regulations about what you can do in your own backyard in the 60s compared to now.

So it must be a case of short term individual pain for long term collective gain.
Posted by Boylesy, Monday, 16 April 2012 12:18:59 PM
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Well Botsley no one will manage a decine in population. It will not matter anyway.

The world's population tracked first coal then oil production EXACTLY !
As world depletion sets in world depopulation will track coal & oil
production EXACTLY without anyone having to do anything.

However it won't be pretty because it will be driven by women's
malnutrition and perhaps some mass starvation.
So you won't have to press anyone to do anything.
Indeed in some poorer parts of the world they are already having
trouble being able to afford fertilisers or food itself and the UN is
experiencing the delivery failure of promised food aid.

Yes, all those alternative energy sources will be used but most are
not suitable for long distance transport of foodstuffs.
At least not in current quantities. Just like earlier last century
Britain imported some food but there is no way that the present UK
population could be fed by sailing ships.
A group in the UK has pointed this out to the British government but
as I said above, they didn't want to know.
Posted by Bazz, Monday, 16 April 2012 3:39:15 PM
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The emphasis will be on 'unpleasant' in the unpleasant transition from abundant and cheap fossil fuel energy to far more expensive and scarce renewable energy.

I would personally prefer an authoritarian government than the anarchy that is likely to ensue as billions face the prospect of transitioning to poverty and starving to death.

The west will not be uneffected because even our population levels are far in excess of what can be sustained at current living standards without fossil fuels.
Posted by Boylesy, Monday, 16 April 2012 6:08:34 PM
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