>> "McReal – you say that: “expectations are a collective”. So are you saying that whatever the majority says makes something “right” or “wrong”?" <<
Posted by JP, Thursday, 5 April 2012 11:31:39 AM

No. What is reasoned to be right is right, and waht is reasoned to be wrong is wrong.

>> "You then assert: “Still, some entities get it wrong”. That is the issue at point however – how do you know that they get it wrong? Is it just because they disagree with you, or with the group that you agree with? That would seem to be completely subjective and does not answer the question of how do you know what is right and wrong." <<

My point was the example - churches, that are supposed to have authority from a god, got it wrong; so very wrong. or do you disagree?

>>What I am saying is that unless there is someone who has made us and who is greater and wiser than us, then all we are left with are each person’s subjective preferences about what is right and wrong – and when there is disagreement there is now way of determining who, if anyone, is correct.<<

Fail. I agree that we can only go by people's subjective preferences of what is right and wrong: as it has always been, so shall it always be. But are many tried and trusted methods of determining who, if anyone, is correct. Ostracism, religion and the law stand out as the winners. There are of course far cruder methods like pistols at 20 yards: personally I prefer to ro-sham-bo for it.

>>I have not been the one to raise references to God in this discussion<<

Epic fail: you just said this 3 paragraphs back:

>>>What I am saying is that unless there is someone who has made us and who is greater and wiser than us<<

Who's that supposed to be if it's not a monotheistic God? Xenu?

>>I have simply tried to logically determine, if atheism is true, can it sustain morality. I don’t see that it can.<<

There's none so blind as they that won't see. This is where too much logic gets you people: the evidence is all around him and poor old JP cannot see it. There are atheists all over the place and most of them don't go around raping, killing and plundering just because they are Godless heathens. Not because they are scared of the legal repercussions: just because they are well-adjusted, normal people with a sense of empathy. At the end of the day it is our sense of empathy that underpins and sustains human morality. Maybe our sense of empathy is God-given. Maybe it isn't. Either way: nobody actually needs to believe in God to have it.

Cheers,

Tony

David,

"Only the poster(s) who is/are guilty of supercilious twaddle will respond to this."

Okay, I'm up for the challenge.

The comment above is in keeping with the arrogant and bellicose and tone of your article - so much so, that I'm visualising the stage at the convention replete with a phone box, into which you step, mild mannered man about town, and emerge moments later decked out in spangled lycra.

Is it a bird. Is it a plane - no, it's "Atheist Man!". Here to prize the grubby fingers of religious fundamentalists off our nuclear arsenals (although, strangely enough, not to interrogate the rational science that brought forth the scourge)

Go forth, David - your convention awaits you.

David,

Overnight a/numbers of poster(s) has/have been in contact asking me, for reasons best known to himself/herself/itself/themselves and not shared with me, to respond on his/her/its/their behalf in agreement/disagreement with some/most/all of your article and comment.

Sounds weird but I was told this would make sense to you.

"""David,

"Only the poster(s) who is/are guilty of supercilious twaddle will respond to this."

Okay, I'm up for the challenge. """

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA :)

*At the end of the day it is our sense of empathy that underpins and sustains human morality. Maybe our sense of empathy is God-given. Maybe it isn't. Either way: nobody actually needs to believe in God to have it.*

Various experiments in the field of primatology, have been able to
show that primates do have a sense of empathy and as social species,
also seek acceptance etc. Given that these genetic traits evolved
in those species, it is quite reasonable to conclude that the same
happened to us.

In other words, JP will probably help the little old lady across the
street, not because he fears burning in hell forever, but because
it makes him feel good to do so