Hi 579,

Here's some more 'previously published research'. I think it's about as reliable as yours:

"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pitb and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful."

There's not much to choose between them, but I think I'll believe in this apocalypse in preference to yours. It sounds a lot more entertaining.

Bugsy; yes, on Titan, at the very least.

cohenite, I was asking about geologic oil. Geo- being the prefix meaning 'Earth'. Titanic hydrocarbons formed at very low temperatures in methane 'seas' are one thing, complex hydrocarbons formed at very high temperatures another.

Maybe I should be more direct and less erudite:

Do you believe that oil is formed from an abiotic origin in the Earths crust and is thus is not a 'fossil' fuel?

Alternatives that actually require a net energy input include ethanol. Or if you will, if in the process of producing ethanol; the only fuel available for any of the steps, harvesting, transport, crushing etc; you'd likely run out of ethanol part way through the entire process. However, the sensible use of very low cost and endlessly dependable wave or tidal power would overcome those limitations and allow us to produce a liquid portable fuel, possibly for less than we currently pay for fully imported foreign fuel?
Those who critique algae based bio-fuel on similar grounds should try articulating their view, from a little higher up. Algae based bio-fuel production, would rescue the Murray/Darling basin and indeed increase the economic well being of that area, for a tiny fraction of current water use.
A bio fuel refinery can run on solar power and cost as little as $15,000.00 to set up.
We need as never before genuine tax reform and quite massive simplification; so that, fuel excise or its loss doesn't continue to pose as an impediment to endlessly sustainable bio-fuel production, bio char; and, other carbon reduction or recycling strategies.
Looking for or finding all the reasons something can't be done or won't work; makes the detractors just part of the problem, which is so serious and urgent; it behoves us all to ditch the entirely counter productive ideological imperative; and become part of the solution.
Rhrosty.

Bugsy,

The tone of your questions to cohenite suggest that if he "believed" in abiotic oil, you, with your greater knowledge, would regard that as fanciful BS.

That might indicate that you are not aware of Vladimir Larin's "Hydridic Earth", C Warren Hunt's "Expanding Geospheres" or Thomas Gold's "Abiotic Oil". If you were to read these, you would find some interesting alternative hypotheses relating to the origin of oil, and some evidence that these alternative hypotheses should at least be considered.

Like many things that we may not know a lot about, it is wise to keep an open mind.

Bugsy, please continue to be erudite; dealing with erudite, intellectual people is the only way I can improve my humble, ignorant self.

As mentioned Larin, Hunt and especially the late, lamented Tommy Gold are good sources to catch up on the abiotic/abiogenic theories of oil formation. I read around occasionally on the issue and this is one of the better pieces I have found:

http://www.offshore-mag.com/articles/print/volume-55/issue-4/news/general-interest/middle-east-geology-why-the-middle-east-fields-may-produce-oil-forever.html

But I have to say I subscribe to the Indiana Jones theory of energy; which is all the secret sources of energy are locked away in a big warehouse somewhere.