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The Forum > Article Comments > It's not a bad place > Comments

It's not a bad place : Comments

By Alan Austin, published 15/2/2012

France is not a bad place to live, but is it paradise?

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How long have you been away Alan? It must be at least 5 years for you to make this statement,
"Don’t yet agree with you that "Our PM tells us lies" or that "That's endemic in Labor". The evidence seems to suggest this particular failing is more one of the Coalition than of Labor. Though I accept the popular perception is the other way around".

Perhaps you need to be here to see, just how bad it is. At the moment if she opens her mouth she is lying, again.
Posted by Hasbeen, Friday, 17 February 2012 10:45:24 PM
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Hello again Hasbeen,

Yes, I entirely agree that it is the popular perception in Australia that Labor has this problem of telling lies.

But there is no real evidence for this, is there?

Whenever I request examples of blatant lies, I am offered switches in policy, or broken promises. Three difficulties for you here:

First, these are only direct lies if the promiser intended not to keep the promise at the time it was made.

Second, in many cases - on both sides of politics - promises cannot be kept due to intervening circumstances.

And third, broken promises have been numerically far greater on the conservative side of Australian politics than on the reformist side.

Have you counted them, Hasbeen?

As an exercise, how about we count the statements of intent now abandonned by both Julia Gillard and Tony Abbott?

Or compare abandonned promises by Paul Keating and John Howard? Or Malcolm Fraser and Gough Whitlam? Or Wayne Swan and Peter Costello? Take your pick.

As always, I am completely open to revising my view if contrary evidence is presented.

Incidentally, I was in Australia last year for all of January, most of July and all of August. So not that out of touch.

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Friday, 17 February 2012 11:14:55 PM
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Haven't you heard the last one Alan.

The ABC, who are promoting KRudd, for a chalange, have found she had a victory speech, [for when she got Rudd's job] written 3 weeks before she challenged him, "on the spur of the moment", as she reckoned. I don't know if she believes it, but if the ABC doesn't believe everything coming out of labor they have finally caught up with the world.

Then it appears the challenge had been conveyed to that fool Clinton woman, & cleared with Obama, before it happened spontaneously.

Mate, if you can't see she is evading telling anything like the truth, when ever she speaks, you don't have the qualifications for a journalist.

Same thing, if you don't feel dirty & slimy, after listening to Rudd, again try another profession, one requiring less perception.
Posted by Hasbeen, Saturday, 18 February 2012 12:40:23 AM
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Hello again Hasbeen,

Yes, well aware of all the claims and counter-claims about the leadership challenge.

This is an area of deceit and duplicity which seems inbuilt into every party in every Westminster democracy everywhere in the world. It would be wonderful if this were not the case, but it seems an inherent structural flaw.

Hence my specific definition of a direct lie, earlier: "a false statements made knowingly, excluding – because of their peculiar character – comments about leadership challenges and climate science."

And again, if you do want to examine and compare conversations about loyalty to party leaders, the comparison is much more favourable to Labor than to the Liberals.

You may remember this historic exchange:

http://australianpolitics.com/1987/03/23/kennett-peacock-car-phone-conversation.html

Anyway, Hasbeen, how did you go finding examples of Labor politicians telling direct lies to the nation, like the two linked above from Tony Abbott?

Anyone?

Cheers, AA.
Posted by Alan Austin, Saturday, 18 February 2012 1:25:29 AM
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Alan,

of course Gillard and Rudd don't tell lies. It's only a perception, most of us hold, they tell lies.

Regardless the same perception has never been help by so many for so long about any other politicians from the conservative side of politics. (The members for New England and Lynne excepted)

I think NSW and Vic Labor had the same perception, as does Qld Labor.

It is why they all still rate so poorly in the polls and have so little representation after the latest elections.

The perception has arisen because they have disappointed so many people, won't admit they have, and spin to justify their failings. Sure not lying but try and tell people here that and they'll just see you as another raving loony lying labor leftie.

I don't see how you can change peoples perception by saying 'they aren't liars'. You and Labor will need to come up with something a damn sight more fair dinkim than that.

Try starting by getting them to actually do what they said they'll do.

eg. 'be fiscially conservztive'
'protect our borders'
'introduce no carbon tax'
'improve our health care and reduce hospital waiting times'
'watch petrol prices'
'watch grocery prices'
'not scrap the medicare insurance rebate'
'protect the whales'

etc etc etc
Posted by imajulianutter, Saturday, 18 February 2012 10:52:27 AM
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Hi Alan,

'You affirm the findings of the 2010 official review of the party by Bracks, Faulkner and Carr.'

Really? That astonishes me. I truely would, without malice or furtive motive, love to read the report. Can we find it online somewhere?

Often I've found my 'enemies'/ competitors have, sometimes knowingly, somtimes unknowingly, supplied me with perspective I would not otherwise have considered.

I'm warming to you ... not your views.

regards keith

ps respect always works wonders.
Posted by imajulianutter, Saturday, 18 February 2012 7:54:14 PM
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